ASA LEC Nomination Results

[ohplease!]

And how exactly will they accomplish this lofty goal? Anyone can make campaign promises. What you need to listen for are ideas on how to accomplish those promises.

by dropping unrealistic goals for solutions both sides can be happy with. Something I do not believe is being done at this point.

 

[ASARJMan]

The longer our current MEC/LEC/CNC drags this thing out, the more assets and opportunities we are going to let slip away.

So you don't think the company has been dragging this out for 4 years? Just the union? You don't think maybe JA wants to break the union here?

We need leadership in OUR ALPA office that can and will open dialog with the company and settle this thing in a fair and equitable way for both sides and get this thing back on track like the Delta MEC/LEC/CNC has done.

And you mention nothing about the company representatives opening dialog with the union. Do you think they're concerned about a fair and equitable agreement, or could management be stalling while the ALPA drive is ongoing at SKYW.

Again, LJ is not new leadership! She is a retread who had her time in the union, and is endorsed by management. That doesn't raise a flag for you OhPlease?

but thats just my opinion and thats why I'll be voting for them. cheers

Which your entitled to, and by voting for "them", are you referring to the LJ Coalition? If so, care to explain why in more detail than above?
:beer:

VOTED IN FAVOR!
PAID FOR BY THE VOTE NO TO LJ'S COALITION COMMITTEE

 

[ohplease!]

typed a whole page of answers and the server went down. da mn it.

suffice it to say that I think both have drug their feet and that the alpa drive there has NOTHING to do with our negotiations. We've been at this for 4 years already.Both sides need to be willing to open dialog and I don't think alpa is being reasonable at this point. A change in the system now would be a mistake but, a change in the people running the system would do well now.

yep ,I'll be voting for the "jackson5". Much like I believe politicians lose sight of the best interests of their constituents after being in office too long, I believe this group has lost its focus on us and the situation we face at this time.

 

[atrdriver]

The more you guys bash this group of fellow pilots, the more I think that there is merit to an MEC change.

Here's an idea. Let's not talk about the issues. Let's sling mug, name call, and make inflamatory statements about people. In addition, let's do it behind a screen name on a public forum so that no one will know who we are.

That's the point here. The Fab 4 won't tell you how they plan to accomplish their lofty goals, because the plan is to sell out. As I have said before, personally I like every one of them, and enjoy their company. I do not, however, like their politics, and that is what this is about. They don't have an answer, at least that they can talk about publicly.

 

[atrdriver]

by dropping unrealistic goals for solutions both sides can be happy with. Something I do not believe is being done at this point.

You know, it's kind of funny how whenever you talk about unrealistic goals you ONLY talk about ALPA. I believe that the majority of pilots here think that it is management who has unrealistic goals, and they who need to drop those unrealistic goals to get us a fair end reasonable contract.

 

[John Pennekamp]

"Smart guy?" .........I guess the name calling will continue.

For the record I support our MEC. They have done exactly what we've asked them to do.

My point is that everytime someone gets on this board and slanders someone who's trying to be part of an answer to a problem, they only make themselves look like a fool and add fuel to the fire that says our leadership has to go.

How's that? And it's even under 500 words.

Calling you smart guy wouldn't be a slam unless you weren't one. I didn't realize I was insulting you.

 

[John Pennekamp]

:smash:

Your Fraternal Brothers are just relieved that you missed the cut. :laugh:

Huh??

 

[John Pennekamp]

first and maybe most importantly they will reach an agreement in a timely manner. That agreement will include provisions to stop the flow of "our" aircraft to "them". It will include provisions to allow us to increase our income by being more productive while we're at work. It will build on the items already TA'd and get this thing done so that we can all move on.

The longer our current MEC/LEC/CNC drags this thing out, the more assets and opportunities we are going to let slip away. I'm not advocating that we should take pay cuts and the company isn't asking us to take one. The increase in hourly wage can and will go a little higher but, not 10%. It'll go slightly higher than it is now and be augmented by profit sharing (not perfplus). The middle ground is there and must be met on sooner rather than later.

There are many ways to attain an agreement that will suit us and the company. You only need to look across the street to see a pretty good example of negotiating an agreement that allows the company to move forward and rewards the pilot group for that forward movement (growth). The Delta agreement may not have been exactly what the pilots wanted to see but, they gave some now and will receive much in return and as Delta becomes stronger they will negotiate again and recapture those things they lost. Sooner or later they will again be at the top of the heap. You don't have to believe it but, watch the next 3-5 yrs. and remember I told you so.

We need leadership in OUR ALPA office that can and will open dialog with the company and settle this thing in a fair and equitable way for both sides and get this thing back on track like the Delta MEC/LEC/CNC has done.

but thats just my opinion and thats why I'll be voting for them. cheers :beer:

Well that's all real interesting, but I've spoken to 2 out of 5 of the coalition and have yet to hear a clear plan of HOW this will be achieved, especially the scope part.

Unless Jerry and Brian have made promises under the table to the coalition (which I'm sure they have) I fail to see what tools they have to achieve binding scope that the current MEC doesn't.

HOW will they achieve this scope?!!!

 

[WorldOnTime]

Fwiw

You can put this in your "who gives a $hit" file if you'd like-BUT...I worked with both Nick Tomlin and Danny Utley when I was in DFW. Both are super guys, no b.s. and very level headed. They worked their asses off for the pilot group and did not hold any kind of "burn the house down" mentality. They both helped me out of a small jam on more than one occasion. I really don't think you would go wrong with these guys. The others....that's a different story.

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

Huh??

What?

 

[ohplease!]

You know, it's kind of funny how whenever you talk about unrealistic goals you ONLY talk about ALPA. I believe that the majority of pilots here think that it is management who has unrealistic goals, and they who need to drop those unrealistic goals to get us a fair end reasonable contract.

OK. here ya' go: I think the company is/was unrealistic to offer a pay reduction, no retro/signing bonus, a different performance bonus/ profit sharing plan (since being acquired by SkyW) than SkyW has, a lack of duty/trip RIGS and I don't like the idea of PBS.

ASA HAS MORE GROUND TO MAKE UP! I've said it time after time.

ALPA is being unreasonable in SOME demands they are making and are not showing a willingness to move off those demands. The unwillingness to find the common ground is whats hurting us all. The CNC said the company agreed to "pretty much everything we've asked for" (short of ADEQUATE raises and back pay) BUT wants to tie it all to PBS. I agree that would not be acceptable. I also feel that smaller % pay increase demands and retirement plan demands could be offered to drop the PBS demands. I've said this time after time as well.

Read this carefully and pay attention: I am not on either side. I am on MY side. I don't fully trust ASA OR ALPA. The system we have is corrupt! It needs to be fixed. We are operating under rules that were designed for a different industry decades ago! We will not be released for a strike. We will continue to lose assets and opportunities we will never get back as long as we continue to stay parked.

I believe you (as well as the MEC) are mistaken about who a majority of ASA pilots think is unreasonable. I think you need to get outside the small circle of "disgruntled" pilots you typically hang out around and listen to others. When you hear the "negativity" in the crew lounge, its typically associated with the same FEW faces.

 

[ohplease!]

Well that's all real interesting, but I've spoken to 2 out of 5 of the coalition and have yet to hear a clear plan of HOW this will be achieved, especially the scope part.

Unless Jerry and Brian have made promises under the table to the coalition (which I'm sure they have) I fail to see what tools they have to achieve binding scope that the current MEC doesn't.

HOW will they achieve this scope?!!!

The same can be said for the current alpa reps who've been at this for over 4 years.

NO scope is EVER going to be binding. Just ask ANY Delta mainline pilot. However, language can be agreed upen to limit the damage to our company.

 

[jegermeister]

Calling you smart guy wouldn't be a slam unless you weren't one. I didn't realize I was insulting you.

You're right. Your master intellect and witty response have shown me how I have missed out on the compliment that it was.

Now that I have seen my folly, let me know when we fly together, so that I too can refer to you in such high regards. I'll even pay the extra respect you deserve by adding a title that you no doubt deserve. Mr. Smart Guy.

 

[atrdriver]

OK. here ya' go: I think the company is/was unrealistic to offer a pay reduction, no retro/signing bonus, a different performance bonus/ profit sharing plan (since being acquired by SkyW) than SkyW has, a lack of duty/trip RIGS and I don't like the idea of PBS.

ASA HAS MORE GROUND TO MAKE UP! I've said it time after time.

ALPA is being unreasonable in SOME demands they are making and are not showing a willingness to move off those demands. The unwillingness to find the common ground is whats hurting us all....

And yet, all you mentioned in your post is that ALPA must drop their unreasonable demands. The company has a LOT more things that they must drop than ALPA does, yet you didn't mention ALPA at all. And until the company begins to get reasonable, I am happy that the CNC is holding their ground. It's the companies turn to make a move, and they refuse. All they want to do is endorse the Fab 4. What does THAT say?

 

[atrdriver]

I believe you (as well as the MEC) are mistaken about who a majority of ASA pilots think is unreasonable. I think you need to get outside the small circle of "disgruntled" pilots you typically hang out around and listen to others. When you hear the "negativity" in the crew lounge, its typically associated with the same FEW faces.

Well, I don't hang out in the crew lounge. The people that I talk to are my crews, people on the bus, and waiting for the bus. And in the people that I speak with the vast majority are sick of the companies lies, and want ALPA to stick to their guns. Guess we don't talk to the same people, huh?

 

[FightingIrish]

Well, I don't hang out in the crew lounge. The people that I talk to are my crews, people on the bus, and waiting for the bus. And in the people that I speak with the vast majority are sick of the companies lies, and want ALPA to stick to their guns. Guess we don't talk to the same people, huh?

Well the nomination vote went to the fab 4 by a 7 to 1 margin. That is quite a statement that the pilots are ready for a change. One of the current MEC members didn't even make the nomination - what does that say?

 

[FightingIrish]

Well that's all real interesting, but I've spoken to 2 out of 5 of the coalition and have yet to hear a clear plan of HOW this will be achieved, especially the scope part.

Unless Jerry and Brian have made promises under the table to the coalition (which I'm sure they have) I fail to see what tools they have to achieve binding scope that the current MEC doesn't.

HOW will they achieve this scope?!!!

How does the current leadership believe they will achieve scope and what will the scope say? I don't hear anything very promissing from them regarding scope either.

 

[ohplease!]

And yet, all you mentioned in your post is that ALPA must drop their unreasonable demands. The company has a LOT more things that they must drop than ALPA does, yet you didn't mention ALPA at all. And until the company begins to get reasonable, I am happy that the CNC is holding their ground. It's the companies turn to make a move, and they refuse. All they want to do is endorse the Fab 4. What does THAT say?

I've said time after time that I believe if alpa will come off of their unreasonable position, ASA will follow suit. You are simply blinded by your subjective opinion against ASA that you do not read the comments I make fully.

It takes BOTH OF THEM to move!!!!!!

 

[ohplease!]

Well, I don't hang out in the crew lounge. The people that I talk to are my crews, people on the bus, and waiting for the bus. And in the people that I speak with the vast majority are sick of the companies lies, and want ALPA to stick to their guns. Guess we don't talk to the same people, huh?

Perhaps the key is that I don't "talk" to them about it, I "listen" to what is being said by them. And I hear, overwhelmingly, that alpa isn't being reasonable.

most people will try to conform to those around them so its likely your are not hearing their true thoughts about the subject. Particularly if you are a Captain (when "discussing it" with your crews.

 

[AutoTransfer]

Fighting Irish,
Where did you get your information? Did you count the ballots yourself?

I think the choice is obvious. If you want to settle for current company offer + a miniscule percent or two, vote for LJ and friends. If you agree with how our current leadership is playing the game, vote for Nick and Danny.

This LEC vote is a referendum on the current company offer as far as I'm concerned. If we vote in LJ and friends, we are pretty much accepting the current offer.

I know who's getting my vote.
AT

 

[atrdriver]

I've said time after time that I believe if alpa will come off of their unreasonable position, ASA will follow suit. You are simply blinded by your subjective opinion against ASA that you do not read the comments I make fully.

It takes BOTH OF THEM to move!!!!!!

And as I remember the last time they met ALPA came down about 3% on rates, while the company came up less than 1/2 of 1%. So that kind of blows that arguement away, doesn't it?

 

[ohplease!]

And as I remember the last time they met ALPA came down about 3% on rates, while the company came up less than 1/2 of 1%. So that kind of blows that arguement away, doesn't it?

last time the company had been asking for 1 rate for FO's at a rate about 8% (could have been more) below current book. Also company was asking for 1.6% raise for 50/atr and if I remember right 5% or so cut for the 70 capts. (most recently raised to 1/2% or so after 2 years (NOT ENOUGH in my book). ALPA went from 12% upfront and I think 3/3/3% all the way down to 10.5%.

I may be slightly off on the #'s but there pretty close. Nice try though.

ALPA has not made a reasonable cut in the $% perhr. Not since the begining of the negotiations. They need to trade that for something we WILL be able to attain. There are more ways for us to increase our income than large $hr. increases.

 

[FishandFly]

Just wanted to mention that Seth Heckard is good guy.

He would do an excellent job.

 

[Copydat]

The beauty of this election is that there are some real choices. We have a good cross section of current ALPA and new blood. Everyone should be able to vote their beliefs with the eight candidates. Despite all the accusations and name calling, the votes will make the ultimate statement. I just hope that our general membership can accept the results and stay unified. It will be interesting to see if the votes reflect the views of these "boards" or if the board posters are a vocal minority. However it turns out this is going to set the stage for the end game.

 

[ohplease!]

Just wanted to mention that Seth Heckard is good guy.

He would do an excellent job.

I agree. I do think hes a standup guy and I will be voting for him along with Barry and Lynn. I don't know the other FO's.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The same can be said for the current alpa reps who've been at this for over 4 years.

NO scope is EVER going to be binding. Just ask ANY Delta mainline pilot. However, language can be agreed upen to limit the damage to our company.

You dodged the question again.

HOW will the Jackson 5 achieve (as you put it) "job protection and modest raises" when our current reps who have been at it for 4 years haven't been able to?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Well the nomination vote went to the fab 4 by a 7 to 1 margin.

What were you one of the three counting the votes? How else would you know that? Generally, the actual vote tallies are not released.

 

[John Pennekamp]

How does the current leadership believe they will achieve scope and what will the scope say? I don't hear anything very promissing from them regarding scope either.

Uh, have you read the proposal? Have you talked to JR? Or just Breiling?

The CNC is asking for scope that binds us to ASA and SkyWest, Inc. How is that not promising?

 

[ohplease!]

You dodged the question again.

HOW will the Jackson 5 achieve (as you put it) "job protection and modest raises" when our current reps who have been at it for 4 years haven't been able to?

I have NO IDEA how they'll do it. I've not talked to them individually. Maybe they won't get it done but, I'm willing to give them the chance. The other group has been given 4 years+ to get it done and have failed. Time for someone else to give it a go.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I have NO IDEA how they'll do it. I've not talked to them individually.

Cut and Run!!!!!

Just give me anything and I'll sign on.

Going through life fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to live your life Son!

Dick