Anyone Know What Happened With The Asa/nmb Meeting 2day?

[BCpilot81]

"Cuz I needz ta no!"
(asa ramper)

 

[ohplease!]

"Cuz I needz ta no!"
(asa ramper)

we'll find out when our MEC thinks its in their best interest for us to know. And then it probably will be "tweaked" in their favor.

 

[atrdriver]

we'll find out when our MEC thinks its in their best interest for us to know. And then it probably will be "tweaked" in their favor.

You mean like management "tweaked" the numbers in their Meetings of Doom, and then when challenged about it said they couldn't tell us how they came up with them? You mean like that?

 

[John Pennekamp]

we'll find out when our MEC thinks its in their best interest for us to know. And then it probably will be "tweaked" in their favor.

"Tweaked in THEIR favor"? Tweaked in the MEC's favor, or the ASA pilot group's favor? Who exactly are "they"? And are you inferring that "they" are the union and "we" aren't?

And if so, prey tell what would their motivation to "tweak" the message be? To hold onto power? I thought none of them were up for re-election.

The hypocrisy of the anti-union crowd becomes more apparent every day.

 

[PCL_128]

we'll find out when our MEC thinks its in their best interest for us to know. And then it probably will be "tweaked" in their favor.

Have you stepped up to the plate and offered your candidacy for the elections? Have you volunteered to help your fellow pilots? Are you on any MEC Committees? I'm curious, since you seem to think that you know better than everyone else how things should be done.

 

[ohplease!]

You mean like management "tweaked" the numbers in their Meetings of Doom, and then when challenged about it said they couldn't tell us how they came up with them? You mean like that?

exactly like that.

 

[ohplease!]

Have you stepped up to the plate and offered your candidacy for the elections? Have you volunteered to help your fellow pilots? Are you on any MEC Committees? I'm curious, since you seem to think that you know better than everyone else how things should be done.

1. nope
2. yep.
3. yep.
4. and you don't think you know better than me how things should be done? hypocrite.

 

[ohplease!]

"Tweaked in THEIR favor"? Tweaked in the MEC's favor, or the ASA pilot group's favor? Who exactly are "they"? And are you inferring that "they" are the union and "we" aren't?

And if so, prey tell what would their motivation to "tweak" the message be? To hold onto power? I thought none of them were up for re-election.

The hypocrisy of the anti-union crowd becomes more apparent every day.

In the MEC's favor. Of course we are all the union. However, as with any political group, those in the power are "really" the union. For the rest of us, our ability to effect change is limited to voting for or against current leadership when the time comes up.

 

[PCL_128]

and you don't think you know better than me how things should be done? hypocrite.

No, I think the majority rules. Your MEC/NC have used copious amounts of Wilson Polling data to determine what the majority of the pilot group wants. They have been, and will continue to fight for what the majority wants. Your views don't align with the majority, so you attack the MEC. If you don't like what the majority of your peers support and are willing to fight for, then you should probably go somewhere where your views are more the mainstream. Might I suggest Skywest?

 

[goahead]

So for everyone else, no news yet.

 

[PCL_128]

For the rest of us, our ability to effect change is limited to voting for or against current leadership when the time comes up.

Not true in the slightest. The real power within ALPA rests with the membership. Ever heard of a Local Council meeting? You know, those things that Breiling never shows up to? If you come to those meetings and propose and pass resolutions, then you can change policy and direct the leadership. Also, you can always recall reps before their terms are up if they aren't doing what you feel is in the pilot group's best interest (*cough*Breiling*cough*). None of this requires you waiting until election time. You can effect change at any time. All it takes is a little effort and the support of the majority.

 

[VeeOne]

Copious amounts of Wilson polling??? I told them absolutely "NO STRIKE" when I was polled and I've only been polled once. Why not a paper ballot like USAirways or many of the other carriers so that EVERYONE provides imput at the same time. I feel this is a crucial move to make if everyone is to give imput and we are to truly "feel the pulse of the pilot group". It seems as if the Wilson polling is so spread out and erratic it fails to yield useful results for the entire pilot group. I also feel that probationary members should have a say in this, as it DIRECTLY impacts them for the longhaul of the next contract.

 

[crjskipper]

wilson polling - great stuff, they ask the same question 12 different ways and in the most ambiguous way. are you willing to strike? do you want a pay cut? do you think you deserve a fair raise? uhm - lets see, those are pretty broad questions.

how about you poll the pilot group on how well you are doing. pennecramp you are the biggest hypocrit of all here. even the slightest unhappiness with our union leadership and you label management. i have every right to disagree with my elected leadership, i pay them a good percentage of my check to work in my best interest - not someone else from national or their own. newy has been at ASA for what - about 6 years and with alpa for almost all of that. he (along with the negotiating commitee) havnt seen an airplane or the lin ein years. but they speak for me - yeah right.

 

[XJPilot547]

You know PCL_128 enough with all your high and mighty preaching. Until you are at the front gates of Gulfstream every day telling all the guys signing up for 250 hrs of 1900 time that they are hurting the industry, you are just being a hypocrite.

 

[goahead]

So, still no news I guess.

your an idiot

no you are

bulls_hit you are

I know you are but what am I

I just told you an Idiot
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[atrdriver]

Copious amounts of Wilson polling??? I told them absolutely "NO STRIKE" when I was polled and I've only been polled once. Why not a paper ballot like USAirways or many of the other carriers so that EVERYONE provides imput at the same time.

You mean like a STRIKE VOTE? Oh yeah, we had one of those, and it passed by more than 92%. Now I wasn't a math major, but I'm pretty sure that 92% is a majority of the pilots.

And I've been polled about 6 or 7 times. Guess it depends if you are home when they call.

 

[ohplease!]

Ever heard of a Local Council meeting? You know, those things that Breiling never shows up to? If you come to those meetings and propose and pass resolutions, then you can change policy and direct the leadership.

Like the one this Monday where our MEC compared a 10% increase in our cost of insurance benefits as being equal to a 10% increase in our hourly $ wage, thus negating a 10% raise if we were to get it? Or when the CNC chairman himself refused to answer a direct question ask of him...which simply asked the % change for alpa since negotiations began as compared to ASA's % change since the same time....No way in he!! they don't have some idea of the numbers.

I do attend meetings and info. pickets and family awareness events and speak to the reps and the CNC guys.

I also talk to the Company guys to hear thier version of the "truth".

Somewhere in the middle lies the real truth.

I'd rather spend my time with family than join the country club, neighborhood assoc. or the MEC/LEC/CNC. That does not mean I shold not have an opinion about what "our" union is doing.

My opinion is we need a change of leadership.

You are certainly entitled to yours.

 

[ohplease!]

You mean like a STRIKE VOTE? Oh yeah, we had one of those, and it passed by more than 92%. Now I wasn't a math major, but I'm pretty sure that 92% is a majority of the pilots.

And I've been polled about 6 or 7 times. Guess it depends if you are home when they call.

I've been called a few times. Missed most of them because I don't sit around the house when I'm off.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but, 92% for a strike vote is NOT a very impressive number.You must consider the appathy on the side of the NO vote. If you're a true YES vote, you're more likely to vote. I voted no and I hear from MANY newer guys/girls that regret having voted yes without understanding what that yes vote really meant.

 

[SBD-2U3]

I guess no info yet.

Maybe we should change the thread title.

 

[VeeOne]

You mean like a STRIKE VOTE? Oh yeah, we had one of those, and it passed by more than 92%. Now I wasn't a math major, but I'm pretty sure that 92% is a majority of the pilots.

And I've been polled about 6 or 7 times. Guess it depends if you are home when they call.

My, aren't we quite the statistician.....

I don't know of too many people that were called at home by the Wilson polling center for their strike vote.

So, getting back to my original question- why not a mailed questionaire or scantron to the ENTIRE pilot group at the EXACT SAME TIME so that EVERYONE gets some imput on this thing.....or does that make too much sense to be put in motion for some people????

 

[sweptback]

So, getting back to my original question- why not a mailed questionaire or scantron to the ENTIRE pilot group at the EXACT SAME TIME so that EVERYONE gets some imput on this thing.....or does that make too much sense to be put in motion for some people????

The same reason why every American is not polled for their choice for President or the like... cost. If ALPA polled every ASA pilot it would cost a fortune. Rather, a representative sample is used where they poll less people but still get a statistically valid result.

 

[ohplease!]

The same reason why every American is not polled for their choice for President or the like... cost. If ALPA polled every ASA pilot it would cost a fortune. Rather, a representative sample is used where they poll less people but still get a statistically valid result.

at $4K a month, they should be able to drive to each of our homes and sit at our table and write down our answers.

 

[sweptback]

at $4K a month, they should be able to drive to each of our homes and sit at our table and write down our answers.

You were obviously at the last LEC meeting. Since you think the polling is unreasonable, did you put forth a motion to discontinue said polling?

 

[ohplease!]

You were obviously at the last LEC meeting. Since you think the polling is unreasonable, did you put forth a motion to discontinue said polling?

nope.

 

[flylowman]

bla, bla, bla. I guess no info yet.

 

[Copydat]

Last time Mr Wilson Poll called me the questions were focused around what issues were worth striking over. The next day I read that Duane had petioned the NMB on our behalf. I felt like my thirty minutes on the phone were wasted since obviously Duane new what was good for me all along.

I'm just a pawn in this here game of politics!

 

[PCL_128]

at $4K a month, they should be able to drive to each of our homes and sit at our table and write down our answers.

Polling isn't cheap. That's just a fact of life. The Wilson Center has an excellent reputation and does a superb job for ALPA. We at Pinnacle have run several of these Wilson polls over the past couple of years, and the results have been consistent. They know how much of a sample they need to get accurate results. Polling the entire pilot group every time would be a waste of money and time. Trust the people at Wilson to do what they specialize in.

 

[VeeOne]

If ALPA polled every ASA pilot it would cost a fortune. Rather, a representative sample is used where they poll less people but still get a statistically valid result.

A Fortune?!?!? Here's some quick accounting for a 100% accurate sample on the issues, Sir.....

.39 (cost of stamp) x 1800 pilots (and shrinking) = $702.00

$702.00 x 2 (return postage) = $1404.00 Total postage

3600 copies x .10 = $360.00 for the questionaire

$100.00 envelopes

TOTAL COST FOR A POLL FROM EVERYONE.............

$1864.00 total

Aren't we paying Mr. Wilson more than that to call us at 10+ per hour @ 30 min per pilot?????

 

[sweptback]

A Fortune?!?!? Here's some quick accounting for a 100% accurate sample on the issues, Sir.....

Aren't we paying Mr. Wilson more than that to call us at 10+ per hour @ 30 min per pilot?????

The cost is not the phone calls or mailing of forms but for somebody who knows what they're doing to analyze the data. Raw data can be misleading if not prepared correctly.

As I said to ohplease, did you voice your concerns at the LEC meeting Monday? If not you're really just wasting your time on here.

 

[FightingIrish]

The cost is not the phone calls or mailing of forms but for somebody who knows what they're doing to analyze the data. Raw data can be misleading if not prepared correctly.

Either they aren't doing a good job analyzing the data, or someone is misleading us. There is alot of support for the group of 4 and getting this contract settled, rather than staying the course and watching our airplanes disappear. The nomination results should be a wakeup call for ALPA.