No Military for CAL?

[THEPRFCT10]

Has anyone heard a rumor that Continental isn't hiring Guard or Reserve guys now because of the threat of military leave?

 

[Scrapdog]

Has anyone heard a rumor that Continental isn't hiring Guard or Reserve guys now because of the threat of military leave?

deleted.

 

[erj-145mech]

Oh no, CAL wouldn't not hire them because they are in the Guard/Reserves. That would be illegal. They may not hire them for some other reason, but not that one.

 

[RSixer]

There were three Military reserve pilots in my class at CAL, plus many in the classes ahead and behind mine.??

 

[JungleJett]

A dude from our unit went to CAL a few months back. Not sure where the rumor came from but I don't buy it.

 

[Otto77]

I hope that is not the case with CAL. I dont see how they would be able to get away with it.

 

[Huggyu2]

There is a current issue going on at SWA involving discrimination of Reservists/Guardsmen, but I've heard nothing about CAL.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Not true from what I can tell. 12 new hires in my class and 4 were military (1 AF, 1 USMC, 2 USN). And one of my friends in a C-130 Guard unit was just hired and another friend in a C-5 unit has an interview. I also know of an F-16 Guard guy who has an interview.

-Neal

 

[dudemize]

I have heard some rumblings that CAL is not happy with excessive mil leave usage. Apparently it is enough to affect their manning. A buddy of mine just interviewed and the mil leave issue came up. He was not hired. 3 in my squadron have been hired in the last year, however.

I think they can easily get away with it, they can always come up with a reason not to hire someone. I don't think they could get away with not hiring any reservists, but they can certainly be more "selective". Hopefully this is not the case.

 

[RedDogC130]

What is the rumor about SWA and reserves? I am sure it is just someone who messed up and another who did not get the job and are blaming it on that. I just interviewed. Just curious what the deal is?

 

[Huggyu2]

I am sure it is just someone who messed up and another who did not get the job and are blaming it on that.

No, SWA just fired a Reservist. I won't go into details, but I'm sure you will hear more about it in the near future. It is beginning to get some high level attention.

 

[MarineGrunt]

What is the rumor about SWA and reserves? I am sure it is just someone who messed up and another who did not get the job and are blaming it on that. I just interviewed. Just curious what the deal is?

A couple of guys in my unit are at SWA and apparently get a lot of flack when they spend too much time at the Guard. It sounds like it is a real pain for them to get their time in. Given the great company SWA is, I was real surprised to hear that.

 

[Zulu]

A buddy of mine just interviewed and the mil leave issue came up. He was not hired.

Your buddy should contact the ESGR. Asking about military status is considered an "Illegal question" (like marital status and national origin) that can't be brought up at an interview (in violation of 38 U.S.C. 4311(a)). Each of these incidents need to be brought to the attention of the ESGR. They may be able to do something for him, or at least contact CAL to keep those kind of questions from being asked in the future.

Now if your buddy brought up mil leave on his own (without being asked), then the subject is fair game.

Z

 

[dudemize]

We talked about the mil leave thing not being a legal question. He hasn't mentioned talking to ESGR about it, maybe he should.

 

[Foties]

Just interviewed on 17 Oct and got hired on 18 Oct with CAL. Got asked some ?'s about mil stuff but never felt discriminated upon. My opinion.. It's BS. It is a fine line and it is very hard handle, but we all signed the line to serve and know we may have to deal with this. Having seen some dudes at my base totally abuse Mil leave, I think us mil guys need to take a stand and be more dependable and not abuse our right to serve so we can get holidays off etc. Good Luck.

 

[dudemize]

I agree 100% Foties. I have seen some guys abuse mil leave, but in the long run it just hurts all of us. Sure they have to let you go, but if it gets bad enough we will start being looked at as undependable. Taking mil leave for a month just because you don't like your assigned schedule is not cool and just screws your fellow pilots.

 

[pkober]

The only time I've seen people questioned about military is when they "abuse" it.

For example, dropping for mil leave over Christmas on December 22nd, junk like that. I put my orders in early and have had no problems.

 

[ToThePain]

I was asked about my military service and if I was going to continue my carreer in the reserves. They basically wanted to hear that CAL was numero uno priority. Unfortunatley some people have abused the military. I will say that the "probationary officer" in EWR is very aware of all military leave that is taken to the point that he has asked some if that Mil leave is necessary. He told me that he also adds up every day of military leave you take (inc. drills) and adds that to your probationary time. I have not abused the policy, doing my 1 drill a month and 2 weeks (actually 17 days) for the year and have always submitted by the 9th of the month prior to the duty and have had no issues. There are 12 CAL guys in my reserve unit and they have felt some pressure regarding using military leave. Three of them have recieved letters from CAL extending their probationary period.

 

[pkober]

That is in violation of the law and the union needs to be notified. PM me for our ALPA mil rep if you don't know him. Don't let them get away with that.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

The truth?

I think us mil guys need to take a stand and be more dependable and not abuse our right to serve so we can get holidays off etc. Good Luck.

This is why they don't look kindly towards military leave.

 

[Captain X]

Has anyone heard a rumor that Continental isn't hiring Guard or Reserve guys now because of the threat of military leave?

There are 3 military guys in my class right now and 2 in the class that followed us.

 

[AlbieF15]

Contact USERRA.

By the way...define "mil leave abuse". Who decides what is or is not important enough work to justify being on orders? If a reservist activates for 30 days over the holiday so the overworked active duty guys get a break, is that somehow wrong? Why should the airline employees be more protected from working a holiday than an active duty service person?

Employers have the right to call military units requesting relief from taskings. They usually don't--because they know they'll come off as unpatriotic or not supportive. Instead--they individually pressure employees who are on leave. What does the reservist/guardsman say who is asked to pony up and work over the holidays so some over-worked active duty guys can have time off? "Sorry--bad time...they'll need to suck it up. But ask me again in January and perhaps they can go take some leave then?"

Employers need to quit badgering the guy or gal caught in the no-win middle of these fights and contact their USERRA omsbudsman and/or the employees military supervisors.

Every unit is different. Every story is different. Nailing someone because they had to perform duty when it was "inconvenient" for the airline without getting the full story is wrong. The guy who dropped a month may have done so to go to Red Flag or another similar training event that are hard to get every 2-3 years... That week that conflicted with a "bad trip" may have been so he could get his night squares done for the year--sometimes tough for part-timers when the unit only has 7-8 periods a year on a night schedule. For Viper guys---masters of many trades--the chance to do SEAD, CAS, or Maverick rides may be limited due to range availablity. These guys will go when they can get the training.

Turn on CNN. Count the stories about all the guys who hate us and want to kill us. Then rethink why we have the reserve forces. There are some good deals to being part of the team, but there is also a heck of a lot of work and responsiblity. I've said this before, but for most guys doing both jobs you soon find out you really just can't make everyone happy, and sometimes you just have to suck it up and get it done.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

A Hornet's Nest Disturbed?!

Great info, guys...I heard the rumor from a CAL FO who I've been talking to. He just said that currently CAL is not hiring Reservists or Guard guys because of I guess the very few who seem to abuse the system, maybe? Of course they can find just about any other reason as to not hire someone. I was unaware that they cannot bring up the military thing during the interview if in fact that is against the law...thoughts?

 

[ToThePain]

CAL asked me if I was going to continue service in the reserves (I was coming off active duty). I told them that I had not commited myself towards that and that was a decission that I would have to make with my family. I also said if I did choose participate in the reserves I understood that my primary job was CAL. I left it at that and they asked no more questions regarding reserves. Hope this helps.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

CAL asked me if I was going to continue service in the reserves (I was coming off active duty). I told them that I had not commited myself towards that and that was a decission that I would have to make with my family. I also said if I did choose participate in the reserves I understood that my primary job was CAL. I left it at that and they asked no more questions regarding reserves. Hope this helps.

Hope all is well big boy...and get to that 777 already will you? I need the bump.

But to keep the thread drift minimal...I'll post something hopefully of some minimal worth. Use common sense. That's all. I wasn't in the military but I have done a lot of union work and have dealt with management on a variety of issues. I also know a lot of good people who have no problems with their Guard/Reserve time because they know that their primary job is their airline. They also know that orders come up and things happen that require leave from time to time. The airline knows that and understands that. They also know who the bad apples are and they can spot them from a mile away. They have seen all the tricks in the book. So as long as you exercise some common sense and think with your big head, all will go fine.

The rumor of CAL not hiring Guard/Reserve guys just simply isn't true. I spent an hour on the phone with a great guy tonight who flies in the Guard and he interviews soon...and he shouldn't have any problem getting hired either. I look forward to buying him a congratulatory beer after he gets the class date. I know of another Reserve pilot who interviews soon as well and shouldn't have any problems.

-Neal

 

[ToThePain]

Hope all is well big boy...and get to that 777 already will you? I need the bump.

But to keep the thread drift minimal...I'll post something hopefully of some minimal worth. Use common sense. That's all. I wasn't in the military but I have done a lot of union work and have dealt with management on a variety of issues. I also know a lot of good people who have no problems with their Guard/Reserve time because they know that their primary job is their airline. They also know that orders come up and things happen that require leave from time to time. The airline knows that and understands that. They also know who the bad apples are and they can spot them from a mile away. They have seen all the tricks in the book. So as long as you exercise some common sense and think with your big head, all will go fine.

The rumor of CAL not hiring Guard/Reserve guys just simply isn't true. I spent an hour on the phone with a great guy tonight who flies in the Guard and he interviews soon...and he shouldn't have any problem getting hired either. I look forward to buying him a congratulatory beer after he gets the class date. I know of another Reserve pilot who interviews soon as well and shouldn't have any problems.

-Neal

I keep bidding for 777 training and keep rolling snake eyes. They only released one 737 EWR FO in Nov, one in Dec and two in Jan for 777 training. There are 23 of us from the Aug 06 bid (from EWR) so I'm guessing that it won't be till May/June. I'll buy the beer whn it happens

 

[skiddriver]

When I was the active duty site commander for the Marine units at NAS New Orleans, I had the Chief Pilot from ACA (pre-Independence) call me with a complaint about one of our reserve pilots, who eventually went on to be the unit Det OIC.

This gent explained that he couldn't understand how he could complete his USNR obligation at the Pentagon in one weekend a month, while "our" pilot needed more time than that.

I explained that flying an aircraft was different than flying a desk and that any orders I signed were valid and not for him to question. I offered to contact the Louisiana ESGR and let them mediate any dispute.

Never heard from him again.

 

[psysicx]

So is it legal to ask you if you plan on staying in the Guard?

 

[JungleJett]

Of the almost seven years I have been with the airlines, I have spent nearly 2.5 of them combined on some sort of mil leave, most of it after 9/11. The company has been very supportive save for a few people. When I was hired, I was asked if I had planned to continue my military service too which my answer was a very strong affirmative. Lately, my military service has suffered due to my work schedule and that is something I am struggling with. It is hard to do both and do them both well. I have a brand new daughter and commute to both jobs. It is hard but the satisfaction I get from both makes it worth it.

Being in the military is as much a part of me as breathing. If I were asked to choose between the airlines and the military, I know what I would choose. Those that have not worn the uniform will never know how it feels and sometimes it takes some explaining for them to understand why we do what we do. When they get a feel for the "why" and "how" they tend to lighten up a bit.

 

[Huggyu2]

So is it legal to ask you if you plan on staying in the Guard?

Yes, it is legal. However, denying you employment based on that answer IS illegal.
So, let's say they've asked you "the question", and you don't get hired. Do you have to prove that you were denied employment because of this? No. Under USERRA, it is sufficient for you to prove that your Guard/Reserve affiliation was a motivating factor in the prospective employer's decision not to hire you. If you prove that, the burden of proof shifts to employer to prove that, even If you had not been a Guardsman/Reservist, you would not have been hired, for a lawful reason unrelated to your Guard/Reserve affiliation.
One of the top USERRA law experts says that, in his opinion, the burden shifts mainly because of this: why does an employer ask a question at an interview? Well, it's to determine whether they want to hire you or not. If it wasn't a factor, then why did it come up?

If you think you've been denied benefits or a job due to your military affiliation, or just getting a hard time, contact the National Committee for Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve (NCESGR) at 1-800-336-4590. You may also wish to visit the NCESGR~ Web site at www.esgr.com.