UPS November Class!

[floater_b2]

Floater,

As an aside, did you have any LOR's when you got the interview, or just the resume and Air Inc. HR 30sec of face time?

AV8OR
I did have 2 LOR's as well, both from line pilots. Good luck to everyone.

Floater

 

[AV8OR]

"AV8OR
I did have 2 LOR's as well, both from line pilots. Good luck to everyone.

Floater"

Aye, there's the rub my friend. Maybe I'll be able to find a couple of senior F/O's to let me sit right seat in their corporate jet to demonstrate proficiency and then write me an LOR! I promise I won't break it!

Thanks again man.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

I don't work in SWA HR, I am just a coke pusher and peanut thrower. As for getting friends hired, I don't know any who would want to work at SWA, since most of my friends do already. I am not trying to change anything at UPS. For the past year, I have kept up with the ongoing saga of swimming in the UPS pool. If you looked at one of my previous posts, I have said some things can't be changed (as in race, military status, and sex). As far as your acrimony, I am so amused. And the last time I checked, you do not have to have the type rating to apply or be interviewed for a pilot position. You can even receive a phone call (instead of the dreaded letter). The type rating is only required to go to class. You must have been turned down at SWA after you purchased the type rating. I don't have to wonder why.

SW

I got the type rating and was offered the job at SWA, but chose UPS instead. I think it is a far greater crime for SWA to basically require a type rating than it is for UPS to have a pool system. It sucks to be in limbo in the UPS pool, but it is truly reprehensible for SWA to encourage applicants to get type ratings and then only hire 25% of those they interview. The rumors were that SWA was in cahoots (sp) with Higher Power and I think it could be true. How many thousands of type rated pilots that have never actually flown a real 737 are there? SHame on SWA!!

 

[myq2u]

Reply to skywaitress:


“I don't work in SWA HR, I am just a coke pusher and peanut thrower. As for getting friends hired, I don't know any who would want to work at SWA, since most of my friends do already.”

So let’s get it right: SWA, FEDEX and UPS seem to be the major players today when it comes to pilot hiring. Yet you (and your husband???) do not know any friends who would like to work there? Maybe if you were not so negative with your replies when someone brings up a point you don’t agree with – you’d have more friends???J Ok, that was mean, I admit it, sry plz don’t crucify me!

“I am not trying to change anything at UPS.”

Really?

“It is BS that UPS hasn't called them for class. SOME THINGS CAN'T BE CHANGED....as in skin color and sex and military status)....if these good ole boys were good enough to pass the interview and be placed in the pool then they should be called to class!!!!!”

I agree btw, that if they passed the interview they should be offered a class. HOWEVER what is so amazing to me is that you’re so vehemently opposed to UPS hiring practices, yet you have no problem with your own airline’s despicable practice of requiring type ratings prior to a class (and yes, we know your hubby did not have one before he was hired).

The fact is; in order to improve their chances of getting hired majority of applicants get the type rating yet more than half (I’ve even heard up to 75%) get turned down. Being in a pool sucks BUT it does not cost you any money upfront, such as the $9,000 or $6,000 a type rating costs (depending on where you get it).

So if you want to sound credible, please stick up for UPS poolies, but additionally PLEASE stick up for the hundreds who interviewed at your own airline, paid thousands of dollars to “prove” themselves to the almighty SWA and yet got turned down. Two of my former roommates were turned down and I believe it was SWA that lost by turning them down. Great guys and great pilots - one works now at Fedex the other at UPS.

If SWA wants a type rating so be it – it’s their prerogative; being a non-SWA pilot it’s really none of my business. Same with the UPS pool – being a non-UPS pilot, it’s none of my business how they do their hiring. I feel sorry for both groups, the turned down at SWA and the poolies at UPS.

You however only pick on one airline, the one you do NOT work for. You fly for SWA and so does your husband (based on your previous posts), yet somehow all you care about is the UPS poolies and you don’t give a dang about your fellow SWA hopefuls???

“And the last time I checked, you do not have to have the type rating to apply or be interviewed for a pilot position. You can even receive a phone call (instead of the dreaded letter). The type rating is only required to go to class. You must have been turned down at SWA after you purchased the type rating. I don't have to wonder why.”

You must be living in some kind of peanut dreamland. Look, I am over 50, there’s no way I’d even consider switching airlines at this point. Never applied at SWA (must be hard for you to understand, huh?), never applied at UPS nor Fedex. If I was younger I would but at this point it just wouldn’t make any sense. And no, I never purchased the type rating; as a matter of fact I still do not hold a 737 type.

It’s funny how personal you get and how much your attitude reminds me of some pilots and FAs from Delta, United and other legacies when things were looking much brighter over there. They all liked to point out all the fault with other airlines, yet their own companies were always just perfect.

Like I said before, I think it’s great you look out for UPS poolies because you say you care for them. I just wish you’d show some empathy for your own SWA-hopeful brothers and sisters that were turned down by your airline in droves. Stand up for them and ask for reimbursement will you???

You say you are a flight attendant. Please don’t get personal now when I show my ignorance regarding your own training. I believe a flight attendant’s training takes anywhere between 6-12 weeks, am I correct? I am really not sure, but lets say it takes 2 months from day 1 until your IOE starts (again, I am guessing here). Wouldn’t you say your training cost your airline several thousands of dollars?

How about if SWA started requiring a $3,000 down payment from all SWA-hopeful flight attendants before offering them a class???

How is that different from requiring us, pilots to pay for a type rating? Again, as long as you complain about your own airlines policies, I’ll say try to change UPS’s policies too, but at least be honest and bring up your own airline’s faults as well.

Also:

“FYI, Brown was a no show at the Air Inc. Job Fair in ATL yesterday, May 20, 2006.”

Well they were a no-show because they (UPS & AIRInc) never said they would be there!
Just check it out here:

http://www.jet-jobs.com/guestframe.html

click on Airline Pilot Job Fair & Seminar Information

then Attending Airlines

now select ATL (May 2006) seminar.

Majors

Company

AirTran Airways Attending: Sarah Keith; Janin Petrick; Michael Muller; Heather Lammers; Tracy Myers; Dan Danell; Shawn Keith; Jerry Olin; Bob Wittenberg; Floy Ponder

FedEx Attending: John Ryder, Manager and Kim Daniels, Sr. Recruiter

JetBlue Airways Attending: Verna Kay; Dean Melonas

Nationals

Company

...

As you can see - UPS NEVER claimed they’d be at this job fair (neither did AIRInc). I know this because my friend who was hoping to see UPS recruiters in Atlanta decided not to go just by looking up the information on AIRInc website; and he knew they wouldn’t be there by early March.

Go ahead and fire away those peanuts at me…

 

[COD God]

SWA requires a B-737 type, not Higher Power

Wondering why SW requires a B-737 type? Read the book "Nuts"....and it's spelled out in great detail on pages 98-99 in chapter 8: "Act like an owner".

Bottom line: Anyone who is willing to invest in themselves has the type of spirit that SW is looking for.

The type isn't for SW....it's for you. If you're the type of pilot who believes in making an investment in yourself to get ahead...then you've demonstrated a personality trait that is attractive to the unique culture at SW.

Similarly, if you're the type of person who isn't willing to join the crew and do "whatever it takes" to get the turnaround done on time....to meet the customer's needs....to make every flight fun....then you don't belong at SW.

Contrast: the "legacy" airlines who's pilot contracts preclude pilot involvement in other activities....

In my 20 years leading sailors in the navy, I got the chance to command my own small organization (50 folks, two airplanes) on an aircraft carrier deployed overseas. I took on the job as if I was the "owner" of the organization (albeit a small subset of a much larger organization). Later, I moved in to a position supervising others doing the same job.

It became quite obvious which leaders "took ownership" and which did not. Same went for squadron Commanding Officers. Some had it, some did not. Bottom line here: The organizations that had leaders that "took ownership" and "acted like they owned the company" had a sincerely greater desire to see success and as a result, success came.

Although I don't work at SW - but hope to very soon - I do see that part of their recipe' for success is rooted in identifying the personality types that....well....have the "right stuff" to coin an old phrase.

As for Higher Power....perhaps I'm mistaken, but it is my understanding the HP has been trying to align themselves with SW....not the other way around. HP isn't the only joint that gives a B-737 type (they just happen to charge more - hah!).

I recently read a post on the Alaska thread in which a pilot asked about "days off"....a fair question....but indicative of the wrong priority. He should be asking: How much can I contribute? How much can I help to make the company profitable/successful. His question reminded me of an old friend who went to work for United about 12 years ago.

He attended a "professional seminar" and called me to report: They spent the first ten minutes talking about safety. Then they spent two days trying to figure out how much more money they could make and how little they could work....

Well....we know which organization has proved its success and vice versa. No, I'm not a recruiter for SW (nor for the navy). I'm just a pilot looking for a job, like much of the rest of you. I liked the comments from myQ2u and had to say somethign to "lil J" in response to his calling SW "reprehensible". Hope my comments help!!

Fly safe

P.S. SW doesn't have HR....it's called the "People Department"

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Here comes the chilvary, Setting the record straight about Skywaitress!

Reply to skywaitress:


“I don't work in SWA HR, I am just a coke pusher and peanut thrower. As for getting friends hired, I don't know any who would want to work at SWA, since most of my friends do already.”

So let’s get it right: SWA, FEDEX and UPS seem to be the major players today when it comes to pilot hiring. Yet you (and your husband???) do not know any friends who would like to work there? Maybe if you were not so negative with your replies when someone brings up a point you don’t agree with – you’d have more friends???J Ok, that was mean, I admit it, sry plz don’t crucify me!

“I am not trying to change anything at UPS.”

Really?

“It is BS that UPS hasn't called them for class. SOME THINGS CAN'T BE CHANGED....as in skin color and sex and military status)....if these good ole boys were good enough to pass the interview and be placed in the pool then they should be called to class!!!!!”

I agree btw, that if they passed the interview they should be offered a class. HOWEVER what is so amazing to me is that you’re so vehemently opposed to UPS hiring practices, yet you have no problem with your own airline’s despicable practice of requiring type ratings prior to a class (and yes, we know your hubby did not have one before he was hired).

The fact is; in order to improve their chances of getting hired majority of applicants get the type rating yet more than half (I’ve even heard up to 75%) get turned down. Being in a pool sucks BUT it does not cost you any money upfront, such as the $9,000 or $6,000 a type rating costs (depending on where you get it).

So if you want to sound credible, please stick up for UPS poolies, but additionally PLEASE stick up for the hundreds who interviewed at your own airline, paid thousands of dollars to “prove” themselves to the almighty SWA and yet got turned down. Two of my former roommates were turned down and I believe it was SWA that lost by turning them down. Great guys and great pilots - one works now at Fedex the other at UPS.

If SWA wants a type rating so be it – it’s their prerogative; being a non-SWA pilot it’s really none of my business. Same with the UPS pool – being a non-UPS pilot, it’s none of my business how they do their hiring. I feel sorry for both groups, the turned down at SWA and the poolies at UPS.

You however only pick on one airline, the one you do NOT work for. You fly for SWA and so does your husband (based on your previous posts), yet somehow all you care about is the UPS poolies and you don’t give a dang about your fellow SWA hopefuls???

“And the last time I checked, you do not have to have the type rating to apply or be interviewed for a pilot position. You can even receive a phone call (instead of the dreaded letter). The type rating is only required to go to class. You must have been turned down at SWA after you purchased the type rating. I don't have to wonder why.”

You must be living in some kind of peanut dreamland. Look, I am over 50, there’s no way I’d even consider switching airlines at this point. Never applied at SWA (must be hard for you to understand, huh?), never applied at UPS nor Fedex. If I was younger I would but at this point it just wouldn’t make any sense. And no, I never purchased the type rating; as a matter of fact I still do not hold a 737 type.

It’s funny how personal you get and how much your attitude reminds me of some pilots and FAs from Delta, United and other legacies when things were looking much brighter over there. They all liked to point out all the fault with other airlines, yet their own companies were always just perfect.

Like I said before, I think it’s great you look out for UPS poolies because you say you care for them. I just wish you’d show some empathy for your own SWA-hopeful brothers and sisters that were turned down by your airline in droves. Stand up for them and ask for reimbursement will you???

You say you are a flight attendant. Please don’t get personal now when I show my ignorance regarding your own training. I believe a flight attendant’s training takes anywhere between 6-12 weeks, am I correct? I am really not sure, but lets say it takes 2 months from day 1 until your IOE starts (again, I am guessing here). Wouldn’t you say your training cost your airline several thousands of dollars?

How about if SWA started requiring a $3,000 down payment from all SWA-hopeful flight attendants before offering them a class???

How is that different from requiring us, pilots to pay for a type rating? Again, as long as you complain about your own airlines policies, I’ll say try to change UPS’s policies too, but at least be honest and bring up your own airline’s faults as well.

Also:

“FYI, Brown was a no show at the Air Inc. Job Fair in ATL yesterday, May 20, 2006.”

Well they were a no-show because they (UPS & AIRInc) never said they would be there!
Just check it out here:

http://www.jet-jobs.com/guestframe.html

click on Airline Pilot Job Fair & Seminar Information

then Attending Airlines

now select ATL (May 2006) seminar.

Majors

Company

AirTran Airways Attending: Sarah Keith; Janin Petrick; Michael Muller; Heather Lammers; Tracy Myers; Dan Danell; Shawn Keith; Jerry Olin; Bob Wittenberg; Floy Ponder

FedEx Attending: John Ryder, Manager and Kim Daniels, Sr. Recruiter

JetBlue Airways Attending: Verna Kay; Dean Melonas

Nationals

Company

...

As you can see - UPS NEVER claimed they’d be at this job fair (neither did AIRInc). I know this because my friend who was hoping to see UPS recruiters in Atlanta decided not to go just by looking up the information on AIRInc website; and he knew they wouldn’t be there by early March.

Go ahead and fire away those peanuts at me…

I could tell you why she is looking out for the poolies BUT you might tell her husband!

And early on, UPS was scheduled to attend in ATL but on the final AirInc. Roster, they were scratched! The one you posted is the current one from the Airinc website.

And I don't think she said her husband was hired BUT he was called after the interview!

And you didn't answer her question when you went after her: Were you turned down by SWA after receiving your type? Is that why you are bitter about SW?

As far as SW requiring FA's to pay, TWA did exactly that, although it was done through an outside company (shell game maybe!), if my memory serves me correctly, you still had to pay to play! yeah, $3k ($2995.00 plus hotel) for the glamour of flying, bet they were lined up!

I never recall her saying that she agreed with the type rating policy.

BTW, she has her pilot's license! and decided not to be a pilot, Something about being stuck up front with someone like you for four days didn't appeal to her, sorry her words, not mine and this has been her opinion forever, has nothing to do with your responses! Besides, with her seniority at SW, she makes as much as most Legacy carrier FO's.

I had to set the record straight!

Later
KBB

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I recently read a post on the Alaska thread in which a pilot asked about "days off"....a fair question....but indicative of the wrong priority. He should be asking: How much can I contribute? How much can I help to make the company profitable/successful.

Cod, we can all sense your enthusiasm for SWA and its "unique culture". I sincerely hope they hire you.

By the same token, I think you're in for an eye-opening in the airline biz. You are paid to move that jet safely from A to B, period, end of story. Management (even at SWA with its "unique culture") doesn't particularly desire or value YOUR input into the management of THEIR operation ... in spite of what any airline's mission statement says to the contrary.

I think you are setting yourself up for a big disappointment thinking you are likely to have any meaningful effect on the operation outside of a safe, on-time arrival.

Also, I don't buy for a minute the explanation that purchasing your type rating is anything other than a company cost consideration. You're telling me (for example) that a guy who dedicates 20+ years of his life in the service of his country, obtains thousands of hours of flight time in numerous different weapons systems, has experienced combat and the loss of colleagues has not "demonstrated an investment in himself" because he didn't purchase another type rating? LOL!

BBB

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Forgot to mention that the hypothetical individual above demonstrated an "investment in himself" by earning a bachelor's degree, attending a service academy, ROTC or OTS, most likely earned a masters degree around O-4 time, completed no less than 3 professional military education courses (Air War College lasting a year alone) etc... And you expect me to buy the explanation that this same individual has not demonstrated an "investment in himself" unless he PURCHASES a 12-day, $10,000 737 type rating? You are kidding aren't you, Cod?

BBB

 

[myq2u]

Reply to KYBB:

“And you didn't answer her question when you went after her: Were you turned down by SWA after receiving your type? Is that why you are bitter about SW?”

Hmm, well let me “…set the record straight!...” (I just copied and pasted this from my earlier message)


“Look, I am over 50, there’s no way I’d even consider switching airlines at this point. Never applied at SWA (must be hard for you to understand, huh?), never applied at UPS nor Fedex. If I was younger I would but at this point it just wouldn’t make any sense. And no, I never purchased the type rating; as a matter of fact I still do not hold a 737 type.”

Translation = never applied = never interviewed (because usually you have to apply in order to get an interview )

You know, if you read some of my previous statements you’ll see that I do agree with her that: “if he/she was good enough to pass the interview they should be offered a class.” What I do not agree with is how she picks on UPS hiring policy when so many pilots think SWA should not charge people to work there. Lots of SWA and non-SWA pilots think it’s perfectly ok, many think it is not. My point is “stand up for all UPS poolies, but stand up for the SWA hopefuls as well,” ESPECIALLY since she works there. Is that too much to ask?

”As far as SW requiring FA's to pay, TWA did exactly that, although it was done through an outside company (shell game maybe!), if my memory serves me correctly, you still had to pay to play! yeah, $3k ($2995.00 plus hotel) for the glamour of flying, bet they were lined up!”

So that makes it ok???

”And early on, UPS was scheduled to attend in ATL but on the final AirInc. Roster, they were scratched!”

Well, you might be correct except I remember my friend calling me sometimes in March telling me he wouldn’t be going to the job fair because UPS wouldn’t be there. That would put it two months ahead of the job fair; but then again, it’s not that important.

“I never recall her saying that she agreed with the type rating policy.”

You’re correct, she never did; however I believe it is highly encouraged to have the type in order to get an interview, and regardless, you will not be called for a class unless you have a type, period. She partially defends that by saying “you don’t need a type until a class date,” then she gets personal: “You must have been turned down at SWA after you purchased the type rating. I don't have to wonder why.”

Just the way you do btw: “And you didn't answer her question when you went after her: Were you turned down by SWA after receiving your type? Is that why you are bitter about SW?”

Even though
1) I did NOT "go after her" but rather her one-sided view on hiring policies at two different airlines;
2) I DID answer the question in the very first reply (I copied it for you above) and
3) I too agree that it would be great if all the poolies got a call TODAY.

Once again, the only thing I find unfair is that she complains so much about one airline’s hiring policy when her own airline’s hiring policy in many pilot’s view is much worst. Yes, I do know she disagrees, and so do you, but I think I should be able to voice my opinion without you getting personal??? LUV?


Ps: I do sincerely hope you'll get the call very soon.

 

[Archie Bunker]

By the same token, I think you're in for an eye-opening in the airline biz. You are paid to move that jet safely from A to B, period, end of story. Management (even at SWA with its "unique culture") doesn't particularly desire or value YOUR input into the management of THEIR operation ... in spite of what any airline's mission statement says to the contrary.

Words of wisdom and experience.

Cod,

If and when you get hired by an airline, you'll no longer be "middle management" like you were in the Navy. You'll be a worker bee....a labor cost to be controlled.....operating under a contract that was negotiated between airline management and your union negotiators. You won't be "taking ownership" of anything.....you'll fly your line, and go home. You won't be solving any of your co-worker's problems, you won't be supervising anyone, and you're not going to impress any of your fellow pilots by helping FAs cross seat belts.

I sincerely hope you do land the job at SWA, but I have a feeling that it might not be the shangri-la that you're pumping it up to be....actually, that's any airline, not just SWA. Like BBB said, I think you'll be in for a rude awakening.

Good luck.