My Concern if ALPA comes to SkyWest

[Steveair]

My main concern if SkyWest goes with ALPA is the cost. In addition to 2% of my paycheck (now nearly $1000 a year), I'm concerned that ole Brad will try to take away Performance rewards (for most pilots... 1000 to 3000 per year). Furthermore, I think we'll lose pay for wx/mx cancellations amongst other things.

In return, what is ALPA going to do for me? The FO that called telling me to send in the card the other day mentioned that they'll pay us if we go on strike - just like the paid comair pilots for 49 days. What's ALPA doing for COMAIR guys now? Looks like they're gonna be gone soon...

Lastly, what's YOUR vote going to be? ALPA or No?

 

[Erlanger]

ALPA is not coming to Skywest. This vote is going to be the biggest blow to ALPA. Just listen to our fellow Skywest pilots that used to fly at an ALPA carrier. They have nothing good to say about it. A few months ago I would of said that ALPA is going to be here but, everyone is coming out with voicing their opinions and it seems to be "no" to ALPA. Even the predominetly pro-ALPA pilot forum at Skywest had a poll (granted it is informal and unscientific) and right now it's 69-31% against as of this morning.

 

[Lazy8]

There's an old saying that applys here...

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"

 

[ASARJMan]

Furthermore, I think we'll lose pay for wx/mx cancellations amongst other things.


Lastly, what's YOUR vote going to be? ALPA or No?

FWIW, ASA's contract pays 100% for any cancellation on an awarded line. Also 100% pay for deadhead. But, you do have to negoiate for it.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[sweptback]

If the SkyWest pilots vote in ALPA, the company may not take away any of your pay or benefits, including performance rewards. During the time your MEC negotiates the first contract, you will have the exact same thing that is in your employee handbook now.

If you are not satisfied with what the MEC negotiates, then you vote no on the TA. It sounds like the SkyWest pilots make good money from the performance rewards and therefore a TA without that is almost destined to fail.

Your concern for cancellation pay is also unfounded. Cancellation pay is considered industry standard, and therefore it would be hard for the company to reach an agreement without it. Again, a TA without it would not be reached, and if one was, it would almost certainly fail as well.

Yes, ALPA is going through some hard times right now, but that is due to the environment that we are in. It is hard to not take pay cuts when your airline is losing millions a quarter, as most were just a few years ago. ALPA gives the pilot group a framework for negotiation with the company, and it makes the company actually negotiate if they want to reach an agreement, not just point out demands. ALPA cannot save a dying airline, nor does anybody expect it to. There is nothing that ALPA can do if Delta wants to liquidate Comair, other than to make sure their contract is followed to the letter until the last day. That is all that anybody can expect them to do, and to think that they could have somehow prevented what is happening now is ludicrous.

Now that the industry as a whole is recovering, the pilot groups that are up for contract negotiations should reach agreements with pay and benefit increases. SkyWest is in one of the best positions of any regional and their pilots should be paid accordingly. ALPA will not guarantee you a pay raise, but they will guarantee you a seat at the table to negotiate one. Without ALPA, the company has no incentive to give anybody pay raises because your pilot group cannot do anything about it collectively.

Us ASA pilots are watching you guys closely over on the other side. The SkyWest pilots voting in ALPA would tell us that you are willing to work with us to become one airline, and to stop the whipsaw. This is in everybody's benefit! A vote against ALPA means that you are content with the whipsaw and content that management is downgrading ASA pilots and tranferring our airplanes to you to fly them. Keep in mind that the whipsaw can go both ways and the SkyWest pilots could one day be losing airplanes and downgrading Captains while ASA hired 75 a month and upgrades quickly. With one pilot list this will not happen.

A merged ASA/SkyWest pilot group would also meet the criteria for inclusion at the head table of ALPA, Group A (over 4000 pilots). If you do not like the direction ALPA is taking with the regionals, this is your chance to change it. The combined pilot group would have as much clout in ALPA as the major airlines. Food for thought.

Finally, everything I said above could just as easily pertain to any other union as it does to ALPA. Is ALPA perfect? No, far from it. But it is the best thing going right now, and this is the time to vote in a union.

 

[wms]

ALPA is not coming to Skywest. This vote is going to be the biggest blow to ALPA. Just listen to our fellow Skywest pilots that used to fly at an ALPA carrier. They have nothing good to say about it. A few months ago I would of said that ALPA is going to be here but, everyone is coming out with voicing their opinions and it seems to be "no" to ALPA. Even the predominetly pro-ALPA pilot forum at Skywest had a poll (granted it is informal and unscientific) and right now it's 69-31% against as of this morning.

I guess now we know why SW is hiring ASA pilots almost sight unseen. We need a strong ALPA unit here at ASA, but if I were to go to SW I would not vote ALPA in either.

 

[GOTAFLY]

After 4 airlines and SkyWest was one of them. SkyWest does not need alpa. I have flown for two Major Airlines that had alpa as a union and SkyWest beats them both.

 

[Erlanger]

sweptback says;

If the SkyWest pilots vote in ALPA, the company may not take away any of your pay or benefits, including performance rewards. During the time your MEC negotiates the first contract, you will have the exact same thing that is in your employee handbook now.

sweptback, this is not true. Even though it wasn't ALPA, I'm sure an airline could still try to pull the same thing on them. Read this...

"In IBT v. North American Airlines (N.D. Cal. September 14, 2005) a federal court in California upheld the airline’s right to make unilateral pay cuts during first contract negotiations. In this case, the court denied IBT’s motion for a preliminary injunction seeking to reinstate various pay and benefit cuts the carrier unilaterally implemented while negotiations were in progress, holding that the union failed to show any probability of success on its claims that the carier violated the RLA by implementing the changes.

IBT was certified to represent North American’s pilots in January 2004 and the union and carrier began collective bargaining negotiations in April 2004. IBT requested the assistance of the National Mediation Board (NMB) in December 2004. The negotiation process is continuing and the parties have not reached an agreement.

In an effort to control its operating costs, North American implemented a series of wage and benefit cuts for all of its employees including top management, unrepresented flight attendants and staff employees in January and February 2005. The IBT filed a complaint and motion for preliminary injunction after North American made the unilateral changes contending the changes violate the RLA’s status quo requirements.

Although the RLA does not contain an explicit status quo provision, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that Section 2 First, along with sections 5,6, and 10 of the RLA create an implicit status quo requirement. Section 2, First requires parties to exert every reasonable effort to make and maintain agreements concerning rates of pay, rules and working conditions and to settle all disputes arising out of the application of such agreements to avoid any interruption to commerce. In denying the IBT’s motion for preliminary injunction, the court had to determine when status quo requirements in these sections take effect.

In Williams v. Jacksonville Terminal, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the onset of negotiations for collective bargaining does not change the authority of the carrier to make changes regarding its employees; the prohibitions in section 6 against changes of wages or conditions pending bargaining are aimed at preventing changes in conditions fixed by collective bargaining agreements. The court in North American noted that the parties had not reached a full tentative agreement or even an agreement on any single section of a collective bargaining agreement when the carrier imposed the unilateral changes. Relying on Williams and a more recent case from the Second U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, the court held that the status quo requirements of section 6 did not apply in this case.

The court also rejected the union's argument that it was entitled to an injunction under section 2, First because that was the only practical, effective means of enforcing the duty to exert every reasonable effort to make and maintain agreements. Where, as in this case, the parties were still engaged in the negotiation process, particularly with the assistance of the NMB, the court could not say that an injunction was the only possible remedy to safeguard the union's right under section 2 First. Additionally, the court rejected the IBT's attempt to rely on cases decided under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), holding that the fact that the National Labor Relations Board has the authority to remedy unilateral changes under the NLRA does not give the court the authority to remedy those changes under the RLA.

The IBT also sought an injunction under section 2, Fourth of the RLA. This section prohibits carriers from interfering with the right of employees to organize. The court held that although there was no question pilots were treated differently than other employees with regard to the pay cuts, there was no evidence that this differential treatment was because of anti-union animus. The court noted that the company made changes affecting all employees' compensation, such as requiring them to pay for a portion of their health insurance premiums. The evidence in this case showed a company-wide objective to reduce costs, not a targeted effort to reduce pilots’ compensation because they were unionized.

The court's well-reasoned decision, holding that a carrier is not bound by the RLA's status quo requirements when no agreement on a first contract has been reached, should be beneficial to other airlines who are faced with the need to make operational changes during the process of negotiating a first contract."

 

[atrdriver]

sweptback says;



sweptback, this is not true. Even though it wasn't ALPA, I'm sure an airline could still try to pull the same thing on them. Read this...

Yeah, they could try that, but that would have to effect paycuts and work rule changes to each and every employee group for it to work. How do you think that would go over with the other employee groups? And IF your management is so great, then why are they so afraid of having a union on the property? SWA has already proved that management and a union can work together for the health of the business.

 

[wms]

That's what happened at Atlas also.

 

[SuperKooter]

Us ASA pilots are watching you guys closely over on the other side. The SkyWest pilots voting in ALPA would tell us that you are willing to work with us to become one airline, and to stop the whipsaw. This is in everybody's benefit! A vote against ALPA means that you are content with the whipsaw and content that management is downgrading ASA pilots and tranferring our airplanes to you to fly them. Keep in mind that the whipsaw can go both ways and the SkyWest pilots could one day be losing airplanes and downgrading Captains while ASA hired 75 a month and upgrades quickly. With one pilot list this will not happen.

A merged ASA/SkyWest pilot group would also meet the criteria for inclusion at the head table of ALPA, Group A (over 4000 pilots). If you do not like the direction ALPA is taking with the regionals, this is your chance to change it. The combined pilot group would have as much clout in ALPA as the major airlines. Food for thought.

That is why the alpa vote will fail at skywest. Aren’t there already 100 ex-asa guys at skywest now?

If skywest votes in alpa the risk that they will merge the lists becomes more real. That would hurt skywest pilots the most, since asa pilots are very senior. Skywest would go from a 2-year or 1 year upgrade to 3 or 4 or longer.

Its very selfish for ASA pilots to say "vote for alpa and your qol will go up" they really just want to merge the lists at the expense of the skywest pilots group and are afraid if they don't merge the lists soon then ASA will up with only a few people.

If any of you skywest pilots are reading this. Do EVERYTHING you can to keep alpa out of skywest. If you vote in ALPA all the problems from ASA will spill over. Remember the most junior captain at ASA was hired in 2001 think about your upgrade. Even if you vote alpa in don’t let them merge the lists. It will make the AA, TWA merger look like a picnic.

But, what I think is Skywest and ASA will never merge to 1 list. The skywest pilots don't want it especially the 700 new ones that are/will be hired (who are probably all anti-alpa) and JA and the rest of skywest managment. The only people who want that are those lifers at ASA. Its just not going to happen, even if skywest becomes alpa.

 

[www.]

That is why the alpa vote will fail at skywest. Aren’t there already 100 ex-asa guys at skywest now?

If skywest votes in alpa the risk that they will merge the lists becomes more real. That would hurt skywest pilots the most, since asa pilots are very senior. Skywest would go from a 2-year or 1 year upgrade to 3 or 4 or longer.

Its very selfish for ASA pilots to say "vote for alpa and your qol will go up" they really just want to merge the lists at the expense of the skywest pilots group and are afraid if they don't merge the lists soon then ASA will up with only a few people.

If any of you skywest pilots are reading this. Do EVERYTHING you can to keep alpa out of skywest. If you vote in ALPA all the problems from ASA will spill over. Remember the most junior captain at ASA was hired in 2001 think about your upgrade. Even if you vote alpa in don’t let them merge the lists. It will make the AA, TWA merger look like a picnic.

But, what I think is Skywest and ASA will never merge to 1 list. The skywest pilots don't want it especially the 700 new ones that are/will be hired (who are probably all anti-alpa) and JA and the rest of skywest managment. The only people who want that are those lifers at ASA. Its just not going to happen, even if skywest becomes alpa.

your still a putz.

 

[jjlaw1]

I dont think we at ASA are trying to be selfish at all. It is obvisious (at least to me) that SKWY INC. will pit our to pilot groups against each other in order to drive wages down and change our work rules. If our two pilot groups work together, we can stop the wipsawing. I think if we at ASA were to sign a sub SKW contract, you guys would be given a pay cut as well. If not, I'm sure you would loose your 700 and 900 to us. Think about it.

 

[mkingmei]

There's an old saying that applys here...

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"

The only problem with this statement is that without a union it can become broken at anytime and you have nothing to say about it. you have no voice... mngmnt Bi$ch if they so choose.
Unions came about for reason. mngmnt is full of scumbags and will turn on the employee at any moment without lost sleep... all the while we worry about our family and careers.... they don't care about you. they care about the all mighty $$$$$
if Skywest wants to continue to take thier chances with mngmnt and thier "we are the good guys act" then let them, but don't come crying to anyone when they turn on you, and they will.

 

[bender]

A vote against ALPA means that you are content with the whipsaw and content that management is downgrading ASA pilots and tranferring our airplanes to you to fly them.

Hey, I can play the spin game too!! A vote for ALPA means a vote for terrorism!!

 

[Whataboutbob]

Who is to say that if you vote in ALPA and ASA merges their list with with Skywest that JA isn't going to just merge the two airlines and use one of the certificates to start another non union airline?

 

[bayoubandit]

LAX, at least for now.

 

[atrdriver]

Who is to say that if you vote in ALPA and ASA merges their list with with Skywest that JA isn't going to just merge the two airlines and use one of the certificates to start another non union airline?

Because obviously JA and his team are ONLY concerned about the pilots welfare. They have no interest in keeping the shareholders happy, as long as those pilots are smiling.

 

[ASADriver]

Because obviously JA and his team are ONLY concerned about the pilots welfare. They have no interest in keeping the shareholders happy, as long as those pilots are smiling.

Jerry is smart. Keep the employees happy and they will work hard and everyone will benefit. ASA has had problems with that in the past, but Skywest is different.

 

[ASARJMan]

Jerry is smart. Keep the employees happy and they will work hard and everyone will benefit. ASA has had problems with that in the past, but Skywest is different.

Not as different as you think Drivel. JA keeps their pilots happy for now to keep ALPA off property. But SKYW pilots are getting restless now having to fly the 900s at 200 rates. Are you implying that the ASA pilots have not worked hard? If you are, you are not an ASA pilot, or haven't been here long.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[gcaflyer]

That is why the alpa vote will fail at skywest. Aren’t there already 100 ex-asa guys at skywest now?

If skywest votes in alpa the risk that they will merge the lists becomes more real. That would hurt skywest pilots the most, since asa pilots are very senior. Skywest would go from a 2-year or 1 year upgrade to 3 or 4 or longer.

Its very selfish for ASA pilots to say "vote for alpa and your qol will go up" they really just want to merge the lists at the expense of the skywest pilots group and are afraid if they don't merge the lists soon then ASA will up with only a few people.

If any of you skywest pilots are reading this. Do EVERYTHING you can to keep alpa out of skywest. If you vote in ALPA all the problems from ASA will spill over. Remember the most junior captain at ASA was hired in 2001 think about your upgrade. Even if you vote alpa in don’t let them merge the lists. It will make the AA, TWA merger look like a picnic.

But, what I think is Skywest and ASA will never merge to 1 list. The skywest pilots don't want it especially the 700 new ones that are/will be hired (who are probably all anti-alpa) and JA and the rest of skywest managment. The only people who want that are those lifers at ASA. Its just not going to happen, even if skywest becomes alpa.

Why can't you just go away? your attacks on the ASA pilot group are baseless and show what a true lack of character you really have!

 

[ASARJMan]

And he (SuperPoop) needs to take a grammar course and learn to write. Either it's that or I've had too many already. And he trashes ALPA yet, supposedly, he hires onto another (after ASA) ALPA carrier, CAL. I think he just a management weeny myself.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[MarineGrunt]

Has anyone else noticed that most of the people "pro-ALPA for SkyWest" people on this forum are NOT employed by SkyWest???

Just an observation...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Has anyone else noticed that most of the people "pro-ALPA for SkyWest" people on this forum are NOT employed by SkyWest???

Just an observation...

MG-

Ever had a guy in your unit that always seemed to be carried by the rest?

 

[MarineGrunt]

MG-

Ever had a guy in your unit that always seemed to be carried by the rest?

Yep. All the time. I see what you're getting at - different ballgame though...

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Yep. All the time. I see what you're getting at - different ballgame though...

Not really...All for one, one for all?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yep. All the time. I see what you're getting at - different ballgame though...

Nope.. unionized pilots have been carrying SW pilots for years. Time to grab a rope and do some pulling. The SW pilots live in a bubble. Coddled by a gushing and blushing management that loves the non union status.

What is/were the contributions of the SW pilots in.....

• Pension reform
• Age60
• LAHSO
• PIC Authority
• Foreign Control
• FFDO. (if there are any SW FFDO's they can thank ALPA)
• Jumpseating and CASS (another issue solved by ALPA). Also, does SW attend the National Jumpseat Conference?
• International Federation Air Line Pilots Association
• NAS modernization

All of these points effect the SW pilots yet, they have no voice at the table.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Not really...All for one, one for all?

#1- Mission accomplishment
#2- Troop welfare

As I said, different ballgame...


Rez - First of all, thanks for keeping the union/non-union debates civilized. I think it helps you're cause a lot more than these other hot-heads throwing around the "scab" term and constantly bringing up the 50-seat pay issue. You bring up a lot of good points in your post and I absolutely see where you are coming from in those regards. However, if ALPA really wanted to benefit from all those accomplshments, why didn't they push for those benefits to be for ALPA carriers only? I'll bet they would have a lot more support in their drives if that were the case.

 

[bayoubandit]

I don't think it was only ALPA that pushed for the items. CAPA (Coalition of Airline Pilots) worked together to achieve what is beneficial to the industry.

 

[Slippery Mick]

I didn't read all the posts, but...

ALPA will just muddy everything. Keep them out.

ALPA's greatest fraud is in convincing everyone that they are job insurance. Their second greatest fraud is convincing the regional pilots that ALPA represents them.

Skywest would do better to form their own union if they want better representation.