ACC upgrade time

[Ill Mitch]

What is the average upgrade time at ACC? Just met a guy who worked there for a few years and never upgraded. Just wondering if this is normal. Thanks.

 

[Flybet3]

What is the average upgrade time at ACC? Just met a guy who worked there for a few years and never upgraded. Just wondering if this is normal. Thanks.

It looks like everyone wants you to make a search...
I would imagine it would be quick. You know I've always wanted to fly one of those shorts...they look like fun

 

[propilot]

Either this guy was pulling your leg or he had issues. Most of the people that I know there upgraded before they could hold an ATP. It would seem that at 1200 hours with sufficient time in type you will upgrade.

 

[Ill Mitch]

Either this guy was pulling your leg or he had issues. Most of the people that I know there upgraded before they could hold an ATP. It would seem that at 1200 hours with sufficient time in type you will upgrade.

Thanks, that's what I thought.

 

[Ill Mitch]

It looks like everyone wants you to make a search...
I would imagine it would be quick. You know I've always wanted to fly one of those shorts...they look like fun

Yea, but my question isn't going to be answered by a search.

 

[CLR2LAN]

so what is the current up grade time looking like....looks like a nice alternative to the regional route.

 

[Ill Mitch]

If I remember correctly, you're in the California area. And if you are, there is really only one person that fits that description.

He was offered upgrade, but do to some conflict with the then Emery/Menlo station people (who were constantly questioning the pilots WX descisions) the customer called and refused to allow him to be PIC on that run. And due to family and location issues he could not accept upgrade at other ACC stations back east.

I flew with the FO in question and he was a very fine, safe aviator. In fact he taught me some things about mountain flying.

So the short answer, no, it's not the norm.

Thanks T-Gate! This is what I thought when I flew with him. Just wondering if this was the norm. Thanks again.

 

[ROSWELL41]

The question I have is, if this is the great alternative that everyone says it is to the regional route, then why arent more people flying for places like ACC?

 

[Birddog]

The question I have is, if this is the great alternative that everyone says it is to the regional route, then why arent more people flying for places like ACC?

The short answer is, Shiny Jet Syndrome. There are a few FO's who have left ACC in recent history, convinced they will make 26 to 28K in the first year at a certain regional airline (the one with the name no one can spell), and that the quality of life will be far better.

 

[Hootie9750]

I love the shorts!
I would totally go to ACC if......

They would pay for my ticket to Milwaukee
They would put me in a class instead of a pool
They would put me on the charter side of things (19on/10off)


But instead they seem to like 600 hour guys who know somebody in the company and are willing to swim in a pool.

Im too high time for ACC and I dont know anybody. Double wammy!

 

[Birddog]

I love the shorts!
I would totally go to ACC if......

They would pay for my ticket to Milwaukee
They would put me in a class instead of a pool
They would put me on the charter side of things (19on/10off)


But instead they seem to like 600 hour guys who know somebody in the company and are willing to swim in a pool.

Im too high time for ACC and I dont know anybody. Double wammy!

People have been hired there with more than twice your time. As for the rest...what do you think it is, UPS?

 

[pgcfii2002]

So are they good to work for? Pay? Upgrades?

 

[texarkana]

Well first off we are the highest paid pilots in the industry, making well over $400,000 a month. We only work three hours a week, upgrades come quickly, especially on the MD-11.

 

[Flying Illini]

Sounds like things are slow there right now, as far as hiring goes. I applied a month ago and still haven't heard anything. When I saw the application asking about Falcon 20 time I thought I would get a call pretty quickly but still nothing. Oh well, I took a job somewhere else. The shorts would have been fun though!

 

[mcjohn]

I love the shorts!
I would totally go to ACC if......

They would pay for my ticket to Milwaukee

I lost so much freakin money going there to interview. Their interview process in quite inconsistent from what I've gathered so be careful when you make the decision to invest the travel expense. It took me a couple months to recover emotionally from my experience. All in all, a good learning experience though. Some folks are handed an easy sim protocol and some are not (in the interview pool.) I have wondered since my experience, how they decide what to throw at who in the sim. Was it that I was last to finish the written? Or was it that I had told the interviewer that I had failed a checkride before when he asked? I was honest and said I failed the intrument checkride due a simulated vacuum failure enroute to hold and ended up on the unprotected side of the hold trying to pull off "UNOS" instead of timing my turns (in moderate chop.) He said "What in the world is UNOS?" I told him undershoot north, overshoot south. He said, "Ohhh, that wasn't a very good idea was it?" I dunno, here's a little paste of a bad sim experience:

I went to an Air Cargo Carriers interview recently and busted on the sim. They said they liked me though and to be sure to interview again in 6 months. The stuff they threw at me on the sim was a little too much IMO (considering what was on my resume.) I was definetly non-proficient for hard slam back course approaches and holds. No time given for set up and briefing. All settings and pulling out of approach plates were on the fly. I told the guy that the format was a little rushed and stressful but he said it mimicks well the conditions they face flying in the northern mid west. Oh well. I don't know if I'll interview there again. I lost 400-500 dollars in the endeavor. However, I want to be that guy that can handle anything on the fly in IMC so that's my big challenge now. Flying banners for 3.5 months certainly didn't help prepare me for sim checks.

 

[mcjohn]

Just to rant on a little more. I like the idea of extremely rigorous training to wash the folks out who don't have the skills. It seems like some regionals do this. A buddy of mine was hired at Piedmont and was not put on a sim at the interview. Nor was he even asked technical stuff about flying. It was more like a shoot the shlt session to see if they liked him and to decide if he would fit in the company culture or not. However, he said the training was extremely rigorous and more then he expected washed out.

From what I hear ACC's training is not too rough. The plane's systems are fairly simple etc.. So I guess they do the opposite. Also, none of their Shorts have auto pilot so that may explain their balls to the wall interview sim check. It's kinda funny though, that they'll accept many super low timers (500-600 hrs) from banner tow and CFI backgounds to interview (because they want longevity out of the pilots) but they expect you to fly at a level of a 2-3000 hr IFR 135 pilot. I don't know many 500 hour CFI or CFIIs that have done much more than train folks for the PPL (mostly day VFR.)

O.K. I'll shut up now.

 

[texarkana]

The stuff they threw at me on the sim was a little too much IMO (considering what was on my resume.) I was definetly non-proficient for hard slam back course approaches and holds. No time given for set up and briefing. All settings and pulling out of approach plates were on the fly.

This reminds me of the ACTUAL flying I do as a captain. Go fly through thunderstorms in busy airspace at 2am with a brand new pilot when you are TIRED. It is not easy. "hold here, ok now expect runway so and so... slow to XYZ knots... ok now expect runway ABC with XXX approach.... cleared to land, blah blah blah direct crosswind at 30 knots." Holy crap, that happened to me less than a week ago. Get in the sim and practice.

 

[mcjohn]

They're not expecting someone weak on instruments to show up and expect that they will be trained to proficiency. Because when you get in the sim, or in aircraft training it's no time to give anyone a refresher on BAI flying or how to enter a hold. It's time to teach company procedures and CRM.

I'm not slamming you McJohn....just stating how it is. People shouldn't show up to an interview at a company that requires excellent IFR skills with only weak skills and be suprised when they're not hired.

Very good point and well taken. Unfortunately, I thought I was pretty sharp. I practiced like crazy with the On Top 8.0 sim which I really like and has a good (realistic) Baron set up on it. Unfortunately they used MSFS 2004 which has one of the worst Baron set ups IMO. Also, the yoke was at the top of my chest when I put my feet on the rudder pedals (CH Products crap.) If you barely applied rudder the plane would bank about 30 degress. I was overwhelmed with the discomfort of a make shift simulator. It serves their purpose well but I would not have gone had I known. Like I said, I thought I was pretty sharp. The sim check failure was unfortunate but it showed me exactly where I stand skill wise in less than ideal environments (which I assume is part of frieght doggin it.) I have no intentions to belittle ACC and how they like to conduct the interview and hiring process. They know what they're doing.

Here's what I could have done to nail the sim check:

I should have practiced ONLY MSFS 2004's Baron or King Air. Also, I shouldn't have just practiced flying full approaches for all the Wisconsin airports. Also, I shouldn't have expected to fly the published holds. The check guy requested only non published holds (one of which - "Night Cargo 100, hold northwest of the Green Bay VOR on the 270 radial.) Did he want left turns?! I don't know. He certainly didn't like it when I started making left hand turns.
Vectors onto the back course and their Baron checklist that says:
APPROACH - 102 KIAS
were not expected. I take full responsiblitly for my failure though. There's no reason that stuff wouldn't be the challenge in real world flying.

Like I said, I want to be that guy that can handle anything IFR but I think I'll go elsewhere for another interview. Nothing against the company or the people that conducted my interview (they were all great guys.) I'd like to fit the mold a little better and have an opportunity to develop some skills that I can't develop without getting the job.

 

[SPBRIAN]

"Night Cargo 100, hold northwest of the Green Bay VOR on the 270 radial.) Did he want left turns?! I don't know. He certainly didn't like it when I started making left hand turns.

If the clearance doesn't have a "left turns" in the clearance your to assume that it is a standard holding pattern and the standard holding pattern is to make right turns, basicaly opposite the standard traffic pattern.

-Brian

 

[OzBushWhacker]

I'm amazed, i thought our interview was pretty straight forward. Was in the pool at Airnet and their ride involved Assymetrics right after take off, Vac fail etc. They shot down a guy cos he didn't ask for an EFC time at the hold.

Admit the $$$ can be tough but regionals do the same. At least we pay during training!

 

[mcjohn]

If the clearance doesn't have a "left turns" in the clearance your to assume that it is a standard holding pattern and the standard holding pattern is to make right turns, basicaly opposite the standard traffic pattern.

-Brian

I know this. I'd like to know how I'm supposed to hold "northwest" of the Greenbay VOR on the 270 radial without making left turns though. I'm pretty sure he was really throwing a curve ball at me to mimick ATC screwing up and to see if I could sort it out. I couldn't and made left turns. That race track pattern got drawn in my mind and I started deciding on the best entry while I'm .7 from the fix on the DME and wham I make a teardrop and left turns. This was less than two minutes into the sim check. You can imagine how the rest went. The heat was on.

 

[Steve]

I know this. I'd like to know how I'm supposed to hold "northwest" of the Greenbay VOR on the 270 radial without making left turns though. I'm pretty sure he was really throwing a curve ball at me to mimick ATC screwing up and to see if I could sort it out. I couldn't and made left turns. That race track pattern got drawn in my mind and I started deciding on the best entry while I'm .7 from the fix on the DME and wham I make a teardrop and left turns. This was less than two minutes into the sim check. You can imagine how the rest went. The heat was on.

From the way i read it your coming from the east?, cross over the fix, performed a teardrop entry and upon crossing the fix the 2nd time made left turns as opposed to right? I don't see how making the turns to the left was your only option. Maybe a parallel entry would have been a better idea?

 

[SPBRIAN]

I know this. I'd like to know how I'm supposed to hold "northwest" of the Greenbay VOR on the 270 radial without making left turns though. I'm pretty sure he was really throwing a curve ball at me to mimick ATC screwing up and to see if I could sort it out. I couldn't and made left turns. That race track pattern got drawn in my mind and I started deciding on the best entry while I'm .7 from the fix on the DME and wham I make a teardrop and left turns. This was less than two minutes into the sim check. You can imagine how the rest went. The heat was on.

There is no way to hold northwest with that clearance, it should have read hold west of the greenbay VOR, i've seen that happen before, the hold west, east, etc. etc. has no meaning except as a reference for orientation puproses, the radial and make left or right turns are what matters here.

-Brian

 

[mcjohn]

I was coming from the south east. I had never heard that terminology either. It threw me for a loop and I figured it was some kind of odd challenge he wanted to throw at me. I quickly read back the clearance that included the "northwest" in it. Very odd. You have to admit though that if you make the left hand turns then the hold is on "northwest" of the VOR. I still take full responsibility....it was dumb for me to do that. If I were sharper or a little more confident I would have queried what "ATC" really meant by northwest instead of just hoping I was doing what he was expecting. I told him afterward that the northwest thing confused me and he said "west, northwest, it doesn't really matter....I meant west though. Can you tell me which direction turns are in a standard hold?"

Ummm...yeah....:blush: :bawling:

 

[OzBushWhacker]

So let me get this straight, you've got a CFI and you don't know what direction "standard" holds are?

 

[mcjohn]

So let me get this straight, you've got a CFI and you don't know what direction "standard" holds are?

Can you tell me which direction turns are in a standard hold?"

Ummm...yeah....

What part of "yeah" do you not understand. Is "affirmative" what you're looking for. Let me say again, I took his clearance (like an idiot) to imply NON-STANDARD left turns. I thought it was some kind of odd curve ball he wanted to throw at me.

 

[big_al]

you should have bought the dreamfleet baron for msfs 2004. the default airplanes are junk

 

[SPBRIAN]

you should have bought the dreamfleet baron for msfs 2004. the default airplanes are junk

Personaly any company that bases their interview on a flight simulator is a joke, no matter how good the program and all of the junk that goes along with the MS2004 program (eye candy) it's still just a game. It's incredible but there is no way in my right mind I could give an interview in that, there's no easy way to dial in radios, the control throws in those yokes (CH products) sucks, there is no corelation between that and a real plane. Atleast with the ONTOP simulator or even a frasca whatever you can usualy go rent some sim time to prep for, how do you prep for the crappy gear on this thing? Personaly, big time joke.

-Brian

 

[texarkana]

Personaly any company that bases their interview on a flight simulator is a joke, no matter how good the program and all of the junk that goes along with the MS2004 program (eye candy) it's still just a game. It's incredible but there is no way in my right mind I could give an interview in that, there's no easy way to dial in radios, the control throws in those yokes (CH products) sucks, there is no corelation between that and a real plane. Atleast with the ONTOP simulator or even a frasca whatever you can usualy go rent some sim time to prep for, how do you prep for the crappy gear on this thing? Personaly, big time joke.

-Brian

This is endless. Yes our sim sucks, deal with it, i did and so did the ~100 guys and gals who work here. The even upgrade some of us too. We are not the only company that uses such a sim to interview people. And our sim is definitely NOT the only one out there that flies nothing like a real plane.

 

[SPBRIAN]

This is endless. Yes our sim sucks, deal with it, i did and so did the ~100 guys and gals who work here. The even upgrade some of us too. We are not the only company that uses such a sim to interview people. And our sim is definitely NOT the only one out there that flies nothing like a real plane.

I'm not slamming you, and luckily I don't have to deal with it. Most sims don't fly like a real airplane, my problem is that for some people who this might be there first interview some sim prep would help alot to give a more sense of relaxation. Having a "game" allows no sim prep in the same conditions that you can expect during the actual interview. My company's sim sucks but atleast it's something that has real instruments and you sit in it, easy to tune, easy to ID, easy to adapt to what you've done in the real world.

-Brian