Miliraty Leave

[jayman]

Is anyone else having trouble taking military leave from their airline?

 

[sandman2122]

Nope, just sp, sp, spellllling military!

 

[Scrapdog]

Is anyone else having trouble taking military leave from their airline?

Isn't that against the law if the airline discriminates against you taking mil leave? No flame bait - honestly curious if that's indeed true.

 

[BiffF15]

What specifically are you having problems with?

 

[Juniority]

Southwest recently reminded its guard and reserve pilots that we can ask for and get all the military leave we want, but they have the legal right to request copies of the orders after the fact. I took this to mean, "you'd better not be pretending to have even one more day of military duty than your orders can prove."

 

[AlbieF15]

Don't F around with cheating the system, but take whatever you need.

You ARE authorized a day off on each side for travel. I'm not sure of the legality of requiring documentation, but my airline asks for it and I've always made it a point to have the info to them generally even BEFORE I do the UTA, AFTP, AT, or MPA. The ARE also authorized to contact your commander to ask if relief from the tasking might be possible.

My suggestion is keep both sides in the loop. Let your military boss know he might be getting a call, and to have his facts organized. FYI--I had one conversation with an Orlando SWA CP about one of the guys I supervise, and this guy has since had NO problems. Actually being proactive and having your mil boss occassionally contact the airline boss can keep things running smooth on all sides.

Fraud, however, will get you fired. It also doesn't help the cause of anyone who's trying to hold down 2 jobs. Don't ever drop a trip for Guard duty that you don't do...that's just lying.

 

[SWAlifter]

I think it's pretty obvious to not take military leave when you're not going to be on military duty BUT try to find military duty to do during the whole trip block. Meaning try not to take one day of Mil Leave on a 3 day trip. At SWA they made me DH 3.5 hours at 0 Pay to pick up the last day and a half of my trip with no rigs, i.e. my 22 trip 3 day turned into a 10 trip 2 day. They do not give you the option of dropping the whole trip with no pay, and they obviously don't pay for you DH. So try to find another day or two of military duty to do or you are going to sacrifice a lot of trip pay.

 

[BiffF15]

Albie is right. Handling this incorrectly could have serious ramifications. As for requiring a copy of your orders some carriers do, some don't. UAL does, and for UTAs and FTPs I turn in a letter signed by the CC or OPSO and that suffices. My ANG unit sits alert 24/7 which means every holiday we have two dudes on orders. Use common sense and lead turn anything that will appear less than honorable or above board by contacting your flight manager in advance and briefing him on the situation. Informing your commander of possible "situations" would also be wise. Some carriers track your mil leave going back to your getting hired. As such any trends that arise will probably result in a call to you and or your commander. Fallout from friction could result in it becoming more difficult for your mil friends in getting hired or more "restraints" placed on guard / reserve guys at your carrier. Be proactive, lead turn any potential problems, and keep everything above the board.
Good luck, we are all counting on you.

 

[CCDiscoB]

Good luck, we are all counting on you.

Hey Biff, that's my sign-off!

 

[Huggyu2]

It's Federal Law. They can't say "no". Actually, they can say "no", and hope that they won't get sued by you, or ROA, etc...

 

[BiffF15]

Hey Biff, that's my sign-off!

Surely you can't be serious...

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Isn't that against the law if the airline discriminates against you taking mil leave? No flame bait - honestly curious if that's indeed true.

Didn't they teach you anything at the zoo.

 

[Huggyu2]

Surely you can't be serious...

... And stop calling him "Shirley".

 

[RVSM]

Read up on the FAQ at the ESGR website.
In short they cannot tell you no.
They can request written confirmation (orders) be provided. You are only required to verbally notify before hand. Written confirmation after the fact is acceptable.

For you SWA guys, you have a Military affairs rep at SWAPA who works to resolve this kind of thing before it becomes an issue. The SWAPA Mil rep is also a member of the Southwest Unions Military Affairs Committee (SUMAC) which is made up of reps from all the unions to work directly with Senior Management to assist the Guard and Reserve members. The Military Leave Guide is the result of the work of these folks. Take a minute to read it. It's under the "about me" tab on SWALife

 

[SIG600]

Surely you can't be serious...

I'm very serious, and don't call me Shirley.

 

[T1bubba]

I took this to mean, "you'd better not be pretending to have even one more day of military duty than your orders can prove."

Actually they encourage you to meet all crew rest requirements for both the military and the airline which usually fall outside the dates on your orders/drills. Check the article in the latest Reporting Point for the specifics.

I've never had any issues, the CP's in BWI have been great to work with.

 

[Purpledog]

I heard that a BWI FO at SWA just got fired for taking too much mil leave. It's going to get ugly for SWA if that's true.

 

[T1bubba]

If a FO got fired, I'd bet it was for something else. The CP's know the USERRA as well as I do (and I had to sit through four hours of a JAG who helped write the law going through the finer points of it once). I've blocked military time off most months for the last three years and have never had an issue.

That said, we have had quite a few reminders of the proper procedures for taking military leave lately.

 

[SWAlifter]

Like T1bubba said, SWA has become a bit more unfriendly about Mil Leave lately. I personally think they ought to take the case up with Bush/ Rumsfeld about their excessive use of the Reserve force while downsizing the active duty, but I digress. If the pilot in question reads this forum, please p.m. me.

 

[Scrapdog]

Like T1bubba said, SWA has become a bit more unfriendly about Mil Leave lately. I personally think they ought to take the case up with Bush/ Rumsfeld about their excessive use of the Reserve force while downsizing the active duty, but I digress. If the pilot in question reads this forum, please p.m. me.

I personally think mil guys should serve their country via the orders our commander in chief gives us and SWA should honor that without any question whatsoever, but I digress.

Oh, by the way, nice little jab at the President of the US and our Sec of Defense...unfortunately the guy that started this thread doesn't care about your liberal views. I'll let you put down your "Hillary for '08" poster so you can respond.