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Miliraty Leave

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Southwest recently reminded its guard and reserve pilots that we can ask for and get all the military leave we want, but they have the legal right to request copies of the orders after the fact. I took this to mean, "you'd better not be pretending to have even one more day of military duty than your orders can prove."
 
Don't F around with cheating the system, but take whatever you need.

You ARE authorized a day off on each side for travel. I'm not sure of the legality of requiring documentation, but my airline asks for it and I've always made it a point to have the info to them generally even BEFORE I do the UTA, AFTP, AT, or MPA. The ARE also authorized to contact your commander to ask if relief from the tasking might be possible.

My suggestion is keep both sides in the loop. Let your military boss know he might be getting a call, and to have his facts organized. FYI--I had one conversation with an Orlando SWA CP about one of the guys I supervise, and this guy has since had NO problems. Actually being proactive and having your mil boss occassionally contact the airline boss can keep things running smooth on all sides.

Fraud, however, will get you fired. It also doesn't help the cause of anyone who's trying to hold down 2 jobs. Don't ever drop a trip for Guard duty that you don't do...that's just lying.
 
I think it's pretty obvious to not take military leave when you're not going to be on military duty BUT try to find military duty to do during the whole trip block. Meaning try not to take one day of Mil Leave on a 3 day trip. At SWA they made me DH 3.5 hours at 0 Pay to pick up the last day and a half of my trip with no rigs, i.e. my 22 trip 3 day turned into a 10 trip 2 day. They do not give you the option of dropping the whole trip with no pay, and they obviously don't pay for you DH. So try to find another day or two of military duty to do or you are going to sacrifice a lot of trip pay.
 
Albie is right. Handling this incorrectly could have serious ramifications. As for requiring a copy of your orders some carriers do, some don't. UAL does, and for UTAs and FTPs I turn in a letter signed by the CC or OPSO and that suffices. My ANG unit sits alert 24/7 which means every holiday we have two dudes on orders. Use common sense and lead turn anything that will appear less than honorable or above board by contacting your flight manager in advance and briefing him on the situation. Informing your commander of possible "situations" would also be wise. Some carriers track your mil leave going back to your getting hired. As such any trends that arise will probably result in a call to you and or your commander. Fallout from friction could result in it becoming more difficult for your mil friends in getting hired or more "restraints" placed on guard / reserve guys at your carrier. Be proactive, lead turn any potential problems, and keep everything above the board.
Good luck, we are all counting on you.
 
It's Federal Law. They can't say "no". Actually, they can say "no", and hope that they won't get sued by you, or ROA, etc...
 
Read up on the FAQ at the ESGR website.
In short they cannot tell you no.
They can request written confirmation (orders) be provided. You are only required to verbally notify before hand. Written confirmation after the fact is acceptable.

For you SWA guys, you have a Military affairs rep at SWAPA who works to resolve this kind of thing before it becomes an issue. The SWAPA Mil rep is also a member of the Southwest Unions Military Affairs Committee (SUMAC) which is made up of reps from all the unions to work directly with Senior Management to assist the Guard and Reserve members. The Military Leave Guide is the result of the work of these folks. Take a minute to read it. It's under the "about me" tab on SWALife
 
Juniority said:
I took this to mean, "you'd better not be pretending to have even one more day of military duty than your orders can prove."
Click to expand...

Actually they encourage you to meet all crew rest requirements for both the military and the airline which usually fall outside the dates on your orders/drills. Check the article in the latest Reporting Point for the specifics.

I've never had any issues, the CP's in BWI have been great to work with.
 
I heard that a BWI FO at SWA just got fired for taking too much mil leave. It's going to get ugly for SWA if that's true.
 
If a FO got fired, I'd bet it was for something else. The CP's know the USERRA as well as I do (and I had to sit through four hours of a JAG who helped write the law going through the finer points of it once). I've blocked military time off most months for the last three years and have never had an issue.

That said, we have had quite a few reminders of the proper procedures for taking military leave lately.
 
Like T1bubba said, SWA has become a bit more unfriendly about Mil Leave lately. I personally think they ought to take the case up with Bush/ Rumsfeld about their excessive use of the Reserve force while downsizing the active duty, but I digress. If the pilot in question reads this forum, please p.m. me.
 
SWAlifter said:
Like T1bubba said, SWA has become a bit more unfriendly about Mil Leave lately. I personally think they ought to take the case up with Bush/ Rumsfeld about their excessive use of the Reserve force while downsizing the active duty, but I digress. If the pilot in question reads this forum, please p.m. me.
Click to expand...

I personally think mil guys should serve their country via the orders our commander in chief gives us and SWA should honor that without any question whatsoever, but I digress.

Oh, by the way, nice little jab at the President of the US and our Sec of Defense...unfortunately the guy that started this thread doesn't care about your liberal views. I'll let you put down your "Hillary for '08" poster so you can respond.
 
I think the key is to be smart about it. If I wanted to, I could take off lots of time from JB to work for the Navy under orders, get paid more and have the benefits of both sides. However, I did not get hired to be a part time pilot. I have a committment to be available for JB just as I have to be available for my Navy squadron. If we start taking too much advantage of the rules and not putting in enough hours at our companies, we're going to hurt our fellow mil folks trying to get hired down the road becasue we'll have the reputation of not be available to work. Call that discrimination, but we could be setting ourselves up for it.
 
Scrapdog said:
Oh, by the way, nice little jab at the President of the US and our Sec of Defense...unfortunately the guy that started this thread doesn't care about your liberal views. I'll let you put down your "Hillary for '08" poster so you can respond.
Click to expand...

Im a conservative in the USAFR and I didnt think his post a jab...hell I AGREE...I was mobilized while the stop loss was lifted in 02 and the AD unit I was associated with let folks out to go to JetBlue, SWA, Tybrin, etc.....while I went and fought in the Stans.....But I digress.
And since his profile states that he flew StarLizards I think he has a right to say that...
 
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That C-141 is one uuuugly airplane - not a beautimous piece of engineering like the mighty P-3 Orion.
 
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Purpledog said:
I heard that a BWI FO at SWA just got fired for taking too much mil leave. It's going to get ugly for SWA if that's true.
Click to expand...

No way it was because of MIL leave. Maybe if he was leaving and not there at all, then lied about it. Hell, we can't get rid of a capt who was caught not flying above FL280 because she was concerned about skin cancer. Happened mulitple times. Not to mention multiple, multiple, multiple over issues with the individual. Can't get into the other stories here but it really is embarrasing from the other stories I have heard. To put it nicely, unbelievable. Mil leave issues are more sensitive than this and I can't imagine someone fired for it.
 
K-Mart said:
Hell, we can't get rid of a capt who was caught not flying above FL280 because she was concerned about skin cancer. Happened mulitple times. Not to mention multiple, multiple, multiple over issues with the individual.
Click to expand...

Was she once based in HOU...and now in DAL?

Tejas
 
After doing some more research it turns out that SWA did fire a probationary pilot who is a drilling reservist for reasons "unrelated to his military service", although he had been counseled about taking too much military leave. Since the pilot is on probation the union can't directly represent him but they are doing what they can.

I suspect the ESGR lawyers will be involved shortly, and hopefully the pilot will have his job back very soon.

T1
 
As the senior TG in my unit I've had a little conversation with a SWA regional CP. I think the situation has since been 100% resolved with no more follow up issues. His concern was "why do YOU have to be there several times a month...many of our reservists only miss ONE trip per month..."

I took some time out of my busy day to explain various currencies....LASDT, Night Squares, AAR, etc etc. and how you have to be available when the training is available. I also explained in a figher unit being there for Friday meetings is highly encouraged every week...but we LET him slide 2/4 weeks. Once we had our conversation the situation has changed. However--I did feel like my pilot was getting some "pressure" prior to our conversation. Good news is since then everyone has been playing nice.

Having 2 loyalties is tough. However--airlines are business and will let you go during a downturn. My liscense plate says "National Guard". My kids are proud I serve and tell their teachers their daddy helps keep them safe. I thank God every day for my employer, but I thank him even more for my Country. Until you've tried to hold down two jobs and keep everyone happy (hint: you can't...), you don't know the pressure.
 

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