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YourPilotFriend said:
If they can seat lock all the senior guys in the saab and take a 5% paycut; 76 seat for 50 seat pay, you will get a lot of airplanes. That's a much better deal than compass.
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I might be wrong, but I believe that you cannot be seatlocked if a new aircraft comes on property with higher pay. Although I think that is with Mesaba's current contract. Who knows what will happen if they toss it.
 
bertengineer said:
The cities will still get service because 9E will do the runs. Just like Rhienlander! Brainard? We already go there!
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Instead of making a comment like that, you should be thanking all the XJ men and women that are fighting so hard to keep the little that they gained through a very bitter battle that lasted for years, If you think that they are just fighting for themselves. Your an idiot, they are not only fighting for their pilot group FOOL, they are fighting for a standard. A standard that will be a determining factor on our own negotiations. Instead of making stupid comments like that, you should be cheering them on.
 
Dumb Pilot said:
Instead of making a comment like that, you should be thanking all the XJ men and women that are fighting so hard to keep the little that they gained through a very bitter battle that lasted for years, If you think that they are just fighting for themselves. Your an idiot, they are not only fighting for their pilot group FOOL, they are fighting for a standard. A standard that will be a determining factor on our own negotiations. Instead of making stupid comments like that, you should be cheering them on.
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Amen Brother
 
Dumb Pilot said:
Instead of making a comment like that, you should be thanking all the XJ men and women that are fighting so hard to keep the little that they gained through a very bitter battle that lasted for years, If you think that they are just fighting for themselves. Your an idiot, they are not only fighting for their pilot group FOOL, they are fighting for a standard. A standard that will be a determining factor on our own negotiations. Instead of making stupid comments like that, you should be cheering them on.
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Well said.
 
Thanks Guys- As a former XJ'er it is heartening to see the support that the current Mesaba folks are getting from across the board. The SLT (senior leadership team, for those not familiar) at Mesaba has seriously underestimated the situation that they are in and the resolve of the pilot group. I really believe that the men and women who make up the pilot group will shut Mesaba down before taking a sub standard contract. I'm not saying that pay cuts can't or won't happen, but they (XJ pilots)will not allow the industry to sink to a new low on their watch.
If you have supported the XJ crowd to this point, thank you. If you are ignorant enough to believe that you work for a "good'" regional airline and the trouble at XJ means more business for your airline, I wish you luck in life. It is just a matter of time until it comes around to you. Have no doubt, the guys and gals at Mesaba are fighting first for themselves and their families. But they are also fighting for their supporters across the airline industry, and yes, even the idiots who have not figured out that we are all in this together.

Good luck guys.
C-YA
 
Does anybody know...

...anything about the what the XJ CRJ instructors are doing. Are they in training right now or not? Someone around here has to know the answer to that question. Serious replys only please. Thanks
 
This deadline kind of surprises me. I would of guessed that management would have just given a date that the company would run out of money and liquidate trying to force the unions to negotiate. But then again who really knows when they are going to run out of money or whats really in the books.

This threat of taking it back to court in a week is a good way of trying to get the unions to talk, since management knows they won't meet unless the company is ready to lower its cost reduction expectations. I don't think management is ready yet to show any signs that they are willing to back off the 19.4% They want this drama to drag on and try to make everyone sweat a little more. They have underestimated us once again. Those that are riding this out are willing to close the doors rather then go below industry average. Management just can't get that concept down.

I think that threatning to go back to court rather then just threatning to liquidate shows that they either don't want to liquidate XJ, or they just aren't ready too quite yet???? Either way its still going to be an 11th hour save (like they all are) and it's going to get even more interesting over the next couple of weeks.
 
Whataboutbob said:
...
This threat of taking it back to court in a week is a good way of trying to get the unions to talk, since management knows they won't meet unless the company is ready to lower its cost reduction expectations...
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Exactly - but the unions are smart enough to know that they have to meet with the company too - otherwise the judge will just disregard the union side of the argument.

I agree with you - why threaten more court talk - I think that the unions are absolutely not deterred by any further court appearances. Court imposed sanctions will probably have a clear result - people will not, more importantly should not work for what the XJ clowns "need". Eleventh hour or not - it is clear that XJ folk will be better paid, better treated, and better led at either another company, or with a different mgmt team. Ergo, NOFD, MF's!!!!
 
The real reason the company is attempting to force negotiations is that they are now unilaterally calling in the NLRB. Once we talk with the NLRB, under the railway act, and according to the NWA FA judgement, we will be forever (or at least for several years) barred from striking, with no recourse or justice whatsoever for labor.
 
Saw on Channel 4 DTW that NWA FA's are trying to get the courts or mediators to declare their negotiations at an impasse. The story went on to say that would start the 30 day cooling off followed by a possible walkoff the job. true or not I don't know. Cya
 
Yeah, the FA's are trying to get an impasse declared, I guess we'll have to wait to see if they are successful.
 
XJohXJ said:
The real reason the company is attempting to force negotiations is that they are now unilaterally calling in the NLRB. Once we talk with the NLRB, under the railway act, and according to the NWA FA judgement, we will be forever (or at least for several years) barred from striking, with no recourse or justice whatsoever for labor.
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How can the company take us back to court without talking about snapbacks and all the other reasons the judge gave for denying them?

Wouldn't it be a waste of time and more money to just go back to court and say "were still running out of money, need help" That hasn't seemed to work yet. Or is this like me calling my credit card company trying to get a lower interest rate. If one denies me I just call back until I talk to a rep (judge) that will lower my rate.

We cant be barred from striking until they are given the right to impose terms on us, they impose, and we try to strike and the judge denies us(in my opinion). and I believe for that to happen they would have to move forward on disgussing snap back terms. Which would mean management would have to tell the union there willing to discuss more favorable terms. Which they won't do. I bet a week goes by and they will then start the liquidation clock. With the threat there isn't enough time to go back to court. They aren't going back to court, management is desperate.

I hope the MEC keeps up the good work and keeps calling there bluff.
 
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I agree, and I think our XJ MEC is doing a fantastic job in defending us and our profession. We already know that the legal system is firmly biased against labor, and we also know that management's lawyers are able to tweak their filings and resubmit an infinite amount of times. I'm just pointing out that if our team shows up to bargain, and someone from the NLRB is in the room, then we already know that there are judges out there who will interpret that as us being in "negotiations" thereby barring us from striking should the company impose terms. We also know that there are judges out there willing to let the company impose. It is true that this is just like calling the credit card company until you find an agent willing to agree with you. The system is not on labor's side.

I hope our MEC refuses to negotiate under these terms, and leaves management sitting at the table alone, playing pocket pool, just like the XJ AFA did.
 
Well, if say management shows up and the union doesnt, does that throw out the argument of snap backs? Can they go to the judge and say "union won't talk, can we impose"?
 
i think the unions are not refusing to show up for talks if there is something worth negotiating. if all the company is doing is showing up at the table with the same old 19 % cuts with an 8% profit margin for 6 years, thats not negotiating, so the unions are not going in for that! I want to thank our MEC and negotiators for doing such a great job, if any of them are ever on this reading. my perception of whats happening to our pilot group is that though we are being beat down and a lot of good people are leaving, it does appear a lot of great people are staying. Its sad to see many of the good ones leave, but thats life, and if a better opportunity comes along, i hope the best for everyone. But as for me, i am riding this horse in til it gets me to a nice place to be, bucks me off, or just does under my butt..........hey, did not the old cowboys shoot thier horse if it was sick? (the company is the horse, I do not condone shooting or killing of anything, its just a comparision)
 
The goat rodeo is over, the goat has been wounded too badly to save. it's time to put the bullet to the goat and put it out of its misery.
 
I just want to throw this out there. I was riding the bus in DTW from the terminal to the parking lot and had an XJ pilot yell at me and telling me it's my fault that Mesaba is in trouble and that I work for a company that is determined to put Mesaba out of business. I told him bluntly that I am not the problem, that his management took the best regional in the country and ran it into the ground. Nobody wants to see Mesaba survive more than me. I grew up in the Twin Cities and wanted to work for that regional so bad. Every time I see a Mesaba employee at the airport, I am friendly and respectful. What you are going through is difficult, and I pray that an agreement can be reached that will allow you as pilots to live comfortable lives that you certainly deserve. I support my fellow pilots in their fight, and I hope that everyone else does too. Fight on!
 
Sorry about that confrontation on the bus. As you can imagine, we're all a little on edge lately. 3+ years fighting for a new contract followed by 1+ year of bankrupcy + liquidation talk = lots of pilots ticked off and frustrated. Thanks for everyone's support.

MM
 
CrownandCoke said:
I just want to throw this out there. I was riding the bus in DTW from the terminal to the parking lot and had an XJ pilot yell at me and telling me it's my fault that Mesaba is in trouble and that I work for a company that is determined to put Mesaba out of business. I told him bluntly that I am not the problem, that his management took the best regional in the country and ran it into the ground. Nobody wants to see Mesaba survive more than me. I grew up in the Twin Cities and wanted to work for that regional so bad. Every time I see a Mesaba employee at the airport, I am friendly and respectful. What you are going through is difficult, and I pray that an agreement can be reached that will allow you as pilots to live comfortable lives that you certainly deserve. I support my fellow pilots in their fight, and I hope that everyone else does too. Fight on!
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Oh Fooley, is this post yourssss???

Just kidding. Can you remind us who you work for, and out of curiosity, what was the context of conversation that prompted this individual to go ape?

And yes, your statement "his management took the best regional in the country and ran it into the ground." is entirely correct, and probably the most heart breaking part of the whole story.
 
From reading the unions email it sounds like mediators have scheduled talks for Mon. and Tues. So I imagine management and the mediators will be there, does anybody know if the MEC guys are going to be there? It sounded like the company has another offer to throw on the table, did they give any hints as to whether that offer is the same stuff different day or something new. I didnt read the Spanjer's letter
 
Terry Hunter said:
Just kidding. Can you remind us who you work for, and out of curiosity, what was the context of conversation that prompted this individual to go ape?
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honestly, I have no idea why he went off, I know he was b@tching about how XJ was going down the sh i tter, and I guess decided to take it out on me...I understand the frustration on your side and like I said earlier, I am pulling for Mesaba. I hope your management increases your pay and allows you to walk around with no pants on for a year, cause we all know how shackled we feel by the conventions of clothes.
 
Does anybody know if the union made some ground yesterday talking to management? The StarTribune article just said they talked and the union didnt put out an email update. I would imagine they might be making progress since everything is pretty quite from yesterday.
 
I believe a hotline is coming out today (tues. 9-26).
Don't get your hopes up....hear it is just another arrangement of the deck chairs on the titanic

BTWC!
STFD!
FPLD(full pay to last day)!
 

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