Your Opinions on a Navajo P

[paulsalem]

I know its a matter of opinion but,

a mojave, or a 400 series Cessna?

 

[FlyingFisherman]

Those filters are in the manifold pressure lines behind the panel, under the glareshield, in the center.

My aunt used to work for Piper in Lock Haven, and she said that the company had a pilferage problem with that one particluar part. She had the responsibility of cutting the strings off and repackaging the product. Without the strings, the users were becoming "dirty cotton pickers".

The TIGO-541 series engine takes a whole new look at engine design, Lycoming was trying to extract too much from the base 540 family. Its an all day chore to just get access to and clean the fuel nozzles. We're not even going into the rigging proceedure.

Paulsalem asked if these were the only piston powered pressurized PA-31's. Yes, although the Mojave is a second generation and much improved over the original design, they weren't marketed to the best ability by Pipers heirarchy.

Ah-ha! I knew they were air filters of some kind. I only worked on the airplane once spent my other time babysitting the FW149D in my avatar, 441 Conquest and some other flight school 172s during my short apprenticeship. Hurricanes suck!

<edit>

The week we had the airplane we needed to do work on the vaccuum system, the deicing system and the starboard engine gauges were not reading properly. I came in one day and was told "put this filter into this line" so thanks for the tip! On the other hand...the airplane was a junk pile on goodyear aero tires. I'm an expert at sanding and repainting corrosion spots, the flavor of cherry juice while bleeding the brakes on Cherokee Sixes and sweating profusely in the florida summer heat.

 

[Junkflyer]

I would recommend staying away from geared engines. More maintenance and lower TBO plus parts can be scarce.

 

[Lead Sled]

The most expensive annual inspection is one that I performed on a P Navajo. The right engine (the engines are geared) was making metal, both wing flaps had working rivets, the holes were worn out to the point that we didn't have enough edge distance to repair them, the rear spar on the left wing had a crack in it at the inboard aileron hinge attach, two fuel bladders were leaking, etc. The bill came to $140K in 1982 dollars.

The airplanes are maintenance hogs. If the airplane is not now on a 135 certificate, it could cost more than its worth to get on a certificate. You also may not be able to recoup the maintenace costs and stay comptitive with charter rates in your area.

I'm not sure how much range that you can expect with six on board either.

There's always a reason why particular airplanes can be purchased for a song compared to their competition. However, look at the bright side - your mechanic will shed tears of joy for his sudden good fortune. Imagine his wife's thrill as he explains his new found job security and how they will now be able to afford that new car and new home, not to mention that their kids will now be able to attend the college of their choice.

'Sled

 

[dhc8fo]

There's always a reason why particular airplanes can be purchased for a song compared to their competition. However, look at the bright side - your mechanic will shed tears of joy for his sudden good fortune. Imagine his wife's thrill as he explains his new found job security and how they will now be able to afford that new car and new home, not to mention that their kids will now be able to attend the college of their choice.

'Sled

hahahaha....I already feel like that.

Ok, so which aircraft/engines are NOT geared? I am feeling stupid, but aren't all piston engines geared? (maybe that was your point)

 

[Lead Sled]

hahahaha....I already feel like that.

Ok, so which aircraft/engines are NOT geared? I am feeling stupid, but aren't all piston engines geared? (maybe that was your point)

By geared, we're talking about engines such as the Continental GTSIO-520s and Lycoming TIGO-541s as opposed to the non-geared IO-520s, IO-360s and the like.

I've never flown behind a geared Lycoming, but I've got a couple of thousand hours in GTSIO powered aircraft (C421 & C411). We knew how to fly them and we never had a cyclinder problem with any of them. Just do your homework and fly them by the book. They'll run as advertised. However, they don't take ham-handedness very well.

FWIW, if I was looking for a pressurized twin to put on a charter certificate, I'd probably take a hard look at a C-414A.

'Sled

 

[erj-145mech]

The P navajo, the C-421, the C-411, Be-65 (Queen air), some Aero Commanders are some of the geared engined airplanes that I can think of off of the top of my head. Cessna 402's, 414's, PA-31-310/325/350 are honest six pax aircraft that are direct drive engines, but only the 414 is pressurized out of that group.

 

[dhc8fo]

The P navajo, the C-421, the C-411, Be-65 (Queen air), some Aero Commanders are some of the geared engined airplanes that I can think of off of the top of my head. Cessna 402's, 414's, PA-31-310/325/350 are honest six pax aircraft that are direct drive engines, but only the 414 is pressurized out of that group.

Actually, a 414 would be nice because I already take a yearly hit for the 300 series training at FSI. They cover the 400 series in the same training so there is a little savings for me!

SO, anything in particular to look at for in a 414? What about the recent wing spar AD?

 

[FlyingFisherman]

I'm not sure how 421 motors and the like are geared...but the FW-149D's motor was a Lycoming design made by BMW.

Now...it's geared 'up' meaning that on takeoff, the propeller was turning something on the order of 3600rpm. Do the 421's and other geared motors do the same or are they geared down in rpm?

 

[Junkflyer]

They're geared down so the engine can turn faster to make more power (rpm=hp) without the prop spinning too fast.