Your Least Favorite Reg

[Pilot Doc]

The FAR I would like to change is the one regarding the sharing of cost among passengers on Part 91 flights. If I rent a Duchess I can split the cost among three other friends or relatives for a flight at the full rental rate, say 200 an hour or about 50 per seat. Flying my Duchess I can share fuel cost only or about 80 per hour and 20 per seat. Just has never seemed fair.

Incorporate and rent it to yourself.

 

[flyflorida2001]

definatly 91.13. Not only a catchall if they can't find anyother way to pin you to the wall. BUT...if you do violate a different reg, you can bet they are gonna hit you with not one, but two violations since breaking the regs is, inherently, careless and wreckless.

 

[SPilot]

just not that much less expensive.

Thanks for your input, I wasnt really sure about my estimate. But do you think a C182 will depricate as much as $11000 in 500 hours or one year? I got the price from aircraftealer.com and it appears that a couple of years difference doesnt make such huge difference in price.

Block price of $150 is what I got from googling 'C182 rental', so yes, at least 150. The prices are really more like 165-170 around where I live.

But let me try again:

Rental: 500h C182 * $150 wet lease = $72K.
Owner: C182 (Buy-Sell=Expense): ($85K-$75K=$10K) + (500h * 12GPH * $3.70 Per Gallon = $22K) + (12months parking&tie-down * $100 = $1200) + 12months insurance $1200 + Registration $200 + Maintenance $8000 = approx $42K

Its still a 40% saving over rental.
Sorry for 'hijacking' the thread with this stuff.

 

[minitour]

Its still a 40% saving over rental.
Sorry for 'hijacking' the thread with this stuff.

"If it flies, floats of f***s, it's cheaper to rent."

-mini

 

[Lead Sled]

Along these same lines, what would the most often violated FAR be? My hunch is that it is probably the ones that deal with supplimental O2. Wait, that can't be - everyone wears the masks when the regs call for it.

'Sled

 

[flyer172r]

Along these same lines, what would the most often violated FAR be? My hunch is that it is probably the ones that deal with supplimental O2. Wait, that can't be - everyone wears the masks when the regs call for it.

'Sled

Well, since 91.13 is cited on every violation handed out, I'd say that's the one most often violated. Aside from that, I'd say airspace violations, runway incursions, possibly heading or altitude busts.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

8 hrs bottle to throttle

 

[CalifDan]

Thanks for your input, I wasnt really sure about my estimate. But do you think a C182 will depricate as much as $11000 in 500 hours or one year? I got the price from aircraftealer.com and it appears that a couple of years difference doesnt make such huge difference in price.

Block price of $150 is what I got from googling 'C182 rental', so yes, at least 150. The prices are really more like 165-170 around where I live.

But let me try again:

Rental: 500h C182 * $150 wet lease = $72K.
Owner: C182 (Buy-Sell=Expense): ($85K-$75K=$10K) + (500h * 12GPH * $3.70 Per Gallon = $22K) + (12months parking&tie-down * $100 = $1200) + 12months insurance $1200 + Registration $200 + Maintenance $8000 = approx $42K

Its still a 40% saving over rental.
Sorry for 'hijacking' the thread with this stuff.

At 500 hours in a year it will be cheaper to own than rent unless you get very unlucky (like needing a top or complete overhaul before TBO, or other unforeseen problem). I can tell you that at 150 hours the first year for the Duchess we are way behind renting. That said, the aircraft is better maintained than it has been in many prior years.

I still think you are off in your numbers. I do think that adding 500 hours to an engine time can produce a substantial reduction in value unless it was extremely low time to start with. You will also probably have to pay a commission on the sale which might be 8-10 percent. You did not factor in sales tax on the purchase, which in my state would be about 8 percent, let alone annual property tax (1% of value).

I don;t know if you can insure a 182 for 1200 per year flying those kind of hours and perhaps as a low time pilot starting out. My Duchess is not a fair comparison but it runs three times that amount and I've got plenty of multi time.

Maintenance will be more than you are anticipating. At 500 hours you are going to have ten 50 hour oil changes, inspections. Mine run 300 per side including the inspections they do at the same time. That has the potential to be 3000 dollars in oil changes alone. Unless the aircraft is in absolutely perfect condition you will have surprises, perhaps many of them. Some of those surprises can be very difficult to fund.

I'll give you a couple of examples....slight play shows up in main landing gear ($2,100 to replace bushings), landing gear up warning system failure ($1900 in troubleshooting, corrections and replancement of parts), 500 hour inspection due on bendix mags ($1800 to remove, overhaul and replace). My first annual was $15,000 (and the landing gear issue related above was not part of the annual). Now that is a twin and it was pretty evident that prior owners did not have the same attitude about maintenance that I have.

If you do "just get by" maintenance you might get out for 8K if you are very lucky. By the same token, a prudent Buyer will crucify you at the sale for the deferred maintenance. I would double your figure or more if you want to keep things in excellent condition.

I think you are going to save about $30-40 per hour against renting. So 500 hours gives you a savings of about $15,000 - $20,000. That's the difference between commercial insurance and the mark up a typical 182 can probably realize in a leaseback situation, which is what you will save if nothing serious breaks. And if you think that a typical rented aircraft is receiving excellent maintenance, you are dreaming.....most of it is "get by".

Most violated FAR....from an FAA standpoint the careless and reckless issue, from a non professional pilots perspective, something related to currency such as logged VOR checks, night landings, expired database, etc.

 

[Lead Sled]

8 hrs bottle to throttle

I thought it was 8 feet bottle to throttle. My bad.

 

[time builder]

O2 is probably violated much more in 135, 91 regs seem to be much more reasonable, heck, the only time I've run into a problem with part 91 O2 req. under VFR was trying to clear the Front range in Colorado in a slow plane.