You guys look sharp.....

[Rez O. Lewshun]

9E Drivers ( <---click it...)


http://www.surpriseitsme.com/pinnaclepilots.html

 

[probablecause]

I say it is about time for ASA pilots to walk the line.

 

[probablecause]

Did you guys see how fast I turned this into an ASA thread?

 

[Lazy8]

Did you guys see how fast I turned this into an ASA thread?

lol

and soon to be a SkyWest ALPA thread

 

[MarineGrunt]

lol

and soon to be a SkyWest ALPA thread

Screw ALPA. WE DON'T NEED A UNION!!!!

There. That should do it..... :smash:

 

[Lazy8]

Screw ALPA. WE DON'T NEED A UNION!!!!

There. That should do it..... :smash:

amen! :beer:

 

[BOOMER2]

I'm testing the waters for a graduate research project, so here is an excerpt from one of my topic papers. I thought it might be relevant:

"After surveying pilot salaries of 19 regional carriers, year one hourly flight pay for First Officers ranged from $15 to $29, and the monthly flight hour guaranteed ranged from 72 to 82 hours. Year one First Officers are guaranteed to be paid an average of 75.4 hours per month, with the average flight pay being $21.68 per flight hour (Airline Pilot Central 2006). This translates to an average monthly gross income is $1635 or $19621 annually."


Check out this link to the 2006 HHS Poverty Guidelines

​

​

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml


Just something to think about one way or the other.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Good luck Pinnacle!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wmuflyguy]

I'm testing the waters for a graduate research project, so here is an excerpt from one of my topic papers. I thought it might be relevant:

"After surveying pilot salaries of 19 regional carriers, year one hourly flight pay for First Officers ranged from $15 to $29, and the monthly flight hour guaranteed ranged from 72 to 82 hours. Year one First Officers are guaranteed to be paid an average of 75.4 hours per month, with the average flight pay being $21.68 per flight hour (Airline Pilot Central 2006). This translates to an average monthly gross income is $1635 or $19621 annually."


Check out this link to the 2006 HHS Poverty Guidelines






http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml


Just something to think about one way or the other.

Well I guess I make considerably more than the poverty level. It makes me think how many people out there are truly in dire straits and puts all the airline b%#$ing seem stupid.

 

[pilotbrain]

Did you guys see how fast I turned this into an ASA thread?

bet itll become a gojet thread after awhile

 

[Captain Morgan]

Boomer2: Poverty isn't the issue. It's about being paid a just wage for what work we do. Four day trips away from family, idle time, fatigue, sickness, threat of terrorists, education that we've paid for and endured, hand-eye coordination, ability not to crap one's pants or get motion sickness, fearlessness of heights, depth perception, eating horrible food and/or malnurishment, stress of industry and all factors associated with it, shall I go on?

There, put that in your research papers, sir/maam....

 

[SuperKooter]

I say it is about time for ASA pilots to walk the line.

It worked so well for them the past 4 years hasn't it?

BTW does the ASA MEC chair who has way too much power now that the SLC reps have stepped down go out and picket with the rest of the ASA pilots or is he to "busy" for that?

 

[SuperKooter]

Screw ALPA. WE DON'T NEED A UNION!!!!

There. That should do it..... :smash:

you're right Skywest F/0 2nd year makes 6$ more than a 9e pilot and 9e is ... Alpa. Don't forget about thost performance plus checks skywest gets.

 

[Captain Overs]

9E Drivers ( <---click it...)


http://www.surpriseitsme.com/pinnaclepilots.html

Except for the one doofus wearing his leather instead of the blazer like everyone else.

 

[blackbox]

you're right Skywest F/0 2nd year makes 6$ more than a 9e pilot and 9e is ... Alpa. Don't forget about thost performance plus checks skywest gets.

Well if you want to play that game, can you tell me what Comair, ASA, and Horizons 2nd year pay rate is? They are all union shops.

Unions arent a magic pill, but i dont think you should try to paint rosy picture for all non-union airlines. Skywest is an anomaly in the industry. Colgan and Commutair are non-union, they arent exactly the prizes of the regional airline community.

 

[rickair7777]

Boomer2: Poverty isn't the issue. It's about being paid a just wage for what work we do. Four day trips away from family, idle time, fatigue, sickness, threat of terrorists, education that we've paid for and endured, hand-eye coordination, ability not to crap one's pants or get motion sickness, fearlessness of heights, depth perception, eating horrible food and/or malnurishment, stress of industry and all factors associated with it, shall I go on?

There, put that in your research papers, sir/maam....

No kiddding...most of the people in the poverty class are extremely stupid, lazy, dysfunctional, or outright criminal.

The level of talent and motivation required simply to qualify for our job puts us in the upper-middle class realm as far as ability. Why in the h*ll should we be getting paid anything less than $70K???

BTW, I have worked in the real world as a high-end professional, so I have some perspective upon which to base my comparisons.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Except for the one doofus wearing his leather instead of the blazer like everyone else.

That doofus was a Spirit pilot that came out to show support for us.

.... doofus.


I got stuck out b/c of the stupid ground stop. Go figure.

 

[suupah]

I'm testing the waters for a graduate research project, so here is an excerpt from one of my topic papers. I thought it might be relevant:

"After surveying pilot salaries of 19 regional carriers, year one hourly flight pay for First Officers ranged from $15 to $29, and the monthly flight hour guaranteed ranged from 72 to 82 hours. Year one First Officers are guaranteed to be paid an average of 75.4 hours per month, with the average flight pay being $21.68 per flight hour (Airline Pilot Central 2006). This translates to an average monthly gross income is $1635 or $19621 annually."


Check out this link to the 2006 HHS Poverty Guidelines

​

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml


Just something to think about one way or the other.

See, we are paid twice the poverty level(for singles). what are we complaining about?

Oh and tho i am for the pinnacle pilot group. I guarantee the public could give two sh!ts about the walk and probably think you are a bunch of overpaid cry babies.

this industry sucks.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

See, we are paid twice the poverty level(for singles). what are we complaining about?

Oh and tho i am for the pinnacle pilot group. I guarantee the public could give two sh!ts about the walk and probably think you are a bunch of overpaid cry babies.

this industry sucks.

Informational picketing is extremely effective. It is a political event.

Most pilots and people like to see instant results for any given action. Not that true in politics. Results are not often seen immediately. In addition, the actions stopped that were against a pilot group are rarely realized.

Look at it this way. On a flight you aviod T-storms, run a QRH checklist and land at min fuel. It was your shining moment. However, the pax know no different, becuase to them you did exactly what they expected. However your professionalism shileded them from any problems.

This is what politics is like and this is what your ALPA reps both locally and nationally do for the membership. Pilots show up to work with little worry except flying the jet..... this shouldn't be taken for granted........

 

[siucavflight]

Look at it this way. On a flight you aviod T-storms, run a QRH checklist and land at min fuel. It was your shining moment. However, the pax know no different, becuase to them you did exactly what they expected. However your professionalism shileded them from any problems.

:beer:

 

[MRYFLYER]

Has there been a paycut? If no then why would anyone take the job knowing how low the wages are? Just curious as to why someone would complain about a job that they knew what it paid going in.

 

[n32jk]

Screw ALPA. WE DON'T NEED A UNION!!!!

There. That should do it..... :smash:

Wow that usually becomes famous LAST WORDS..... I can remember hearing that from a senior fedex dc10 captain about 20 years ago...then saw him on a picket line 12-15 years later.....ready to burn down the house....... things change.....

 

[MarineGrunt]

Wow that usually becomes famous LAST WORDS..... I can remember hearing that from a senior fedex dc10 captain about 20 years ago...then saw him on a picket line 12-15 years later.....ready to burn down the house....... things change.....

I think you missed the point of the post...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes there has...it's called no yearly increase and no raise since 2004. Many of the faces on that picket line have been there and have been fighting for a fair contract from Pinnacle management since before the contract became amendable.

It's not the pilot's fault for taking the job, it's the company's fault for not negotiating in good faith and recognizing that thier pilot workforce is grossly underpaid and poorly treated.

You can't fault someone for trying to improve things.

In addition,

most people see things in black and white. if you don't like the conditions offered then don't apply. Done.

Better though.. how about applying and fighting for positive change?

If you don't like the USA do you renounce your citizenship?

 

[JoeMerchant]

If you don't like the USA do you renounce your citizenship?

No you don't. You can be a good American however and still criticize your government. Can you be a good ALPA member and still criticize ALPA? If you question or criticize ALPA, should you be painted as "anti-ALPA"? If I criticize our government, am I "anti-American"?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No you don't. You can be a good American however and still criticize your government. Can you be a good ALPA member and still criticize ALPA? If you question or criticize ALPA, should you be painted as "anti-ALPA"? If I criticize our government, am I "anti-American"?

agreed! ALPA should be critized. Critiqued and improved.

However, the critique should be constructive and pragmatic..... It should also not favor the minority at the majorities expense....

 

[JoeMerchant]

agreed! ALPA should be critized. Critiqued and improved.

However, the critique should be constructive and pragmatic..... It should also not favor the minority at the majorities expense....

So the minority can be sacrificed for the greater good? Do you really expect the minority to then turn around and support the majority?

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

Pilots are not making poverty wages; maybe some first year FOs in some locations. Regional captains are certainly not making poverty wages. I agree, the issue is not 'poverty'. Most people I know do not, and 90%+ of people will never make more in their career than $70-$80K, what a typical regional CA can earn. In fact, $80K is included in the top 10% of income. The issue is not that the pay, money wise, is bad, it is that the pay is bad for the responsibility, qualifications, skills, etc., that are required to become, and remain a pilot. I think sometimes people misunderstand what pilots are complaining about.

Boomer2: Poverty isn't the issue. It's about being paid a just wage for what work we do. Four day trips away from family, idle time, fatigue, sickness, threat of terrorists, education that we've paid for and endured, hand-eye coordination, ability not to crap one's pants or get motion sickness, fearlessness of heights, depth perception, eating horrible food and/or malnurishment, stress of industry and all factors associated with it, shall I go on?

There, put that in your research papers, sir/maam....

Well I guess I make considerably more than the poverty level. It makes me think how many people out there are truly in dire straits and puts all the airline b%#$ing seem stupid.

I'm testing the waters for a graduate research project, so here is an excerpt from one of my topic papers. I thought it might be relevant:

"After surveying pilot salaries of 19 regional carriers, year one hourly flight pay for First Officers ranged from $15 to $29, and the monthly flight hour guaranteed ranged from 72 to 82 hours. Year one First Officers are guaranteed to be paid an average of 75.4 hours per month, with the average flight pay being $21.68 per flight hour (Airline Pilot Central 2006). This translates to an average monthly gross income is $1635 or $19621 annually."


Check out this link to the 2006 HHS Poverty Guidelines






http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/06poverty.shtml


Just something to think about one way or the other.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Pilots are not making poverty wages; maybe some first year FOs in some locations. Regional captains are certainly not making poverty wages. I agree, the issue is not 'poverty'. Most people I know do not, and 90%+ of people will never make more in their career than $70-$80K, what a typical regional CA can earn. In fact, $80K is included in the top 10% of income. The issue is not that the pay, money wise, is bad, it is that the pay is bad for the responsibility, qualifications, skills, etc., that are required to become, and remain a pilot. I think sometimes people misunderstand what pilots are complaining about.

I agree, but let's look at some of the problems we face in trying to raise the pay for what we do.

1. As you pointed out, the top pay at a regional, and most of the pay at a mainline puts you in the top 10% of W2 earners. Combine that with the ability to have a 3 day work week and it isn't really that bad of a job. That is a lot to give up if you choose to "draw a line in the sand" and it causes you to have to start over again at the bottom somewhere else. This causes at least 50% of any pilot group to do whatever it takes to save the company even if it lowers the bar. The only solution to this dilemma is some form of national seniority, or at least brand seniority, combined with minimum contract standards.

2. Very low entrance requirements. Can you think of any other job with the same level of responsibility that can be achieved so easily? You can go from 0 time to a 121 FO in less than a year at some of the puppy farms. The solution to this problem is higher 121 requirements. The AMA and ABA would never allow doctors or lawyers to be trained in 11 months. Why does ALPA?

3. ALPA has lost control of the flying by allowing management to put flying out for bid based on cost. Collective bargaining doesn't work well in a highly competitive free market based environement. Again the solution to this is some type of "brand scope" or "inclusive scope".

 

[PCL_128]

Except for the one doofus wearing his leather instead of the blazer like everyone else.

That "doofus" was a Spirit First Officer who came out on his day off to show his support. He deserves our respect and gratitude, as do the other Spirit and Mesaba pilots that took their own time to come down and offer their support for our fight.

To all the Pinnacle, Spirit, and Mesaba pilots that came, thank you very much. This LEC leadership couldn't be more proud of this pilot group.