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You guys have me scared

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Often people forget to consider other flying jobs besides airlines. My background is in law enforcement, and I made the jump to an airline not too long ago. I would have to agree with comments from Bobbysamd and Nonstop.

What I have finally realized is that the interesting part is learning something new, not doing the same old thing every day. In reality, flying a Boeing is no different than a Baron, just done with more precision. The Boeing however takes me away for longer from home, family, and friends. One jetway looks like all the others too. An ILS is an ILS. Hotel food isn't good or cheap.

Someday when you've past forty you'll start thinking about the past and how you could have done things differently. When you are 24 one looks only looking into the future. There is great value in comments posted on this board, even though some are painful to read. But like every parent or flight instructor will tell you, sometimes you must allow the child/student to make mistakes to learn from them. The original poster of this thread is young and still has alot to learn.

It doesn't suprise me that some think older wiser folks are negative sounding, but don't ask for opinions if you don't want to hear them. There is alot of 'been there done that' here.

Either way, I hope you learn something from all this and do whatever makes happy when you are forty, and starting to look back.
 
MILITARY AVIATION HAS UPS/DOWN TOO

A slightly different perspective. I caught the "flying bug" my freshman year in college. Took some lessons, but knew there was no way I could afford all those ratings. At the same time I was enrolled in AFROTC, and learned that I could pursue BOTH my desire to be a 2Lt AND my desire to fly.

Here's the twist: All forms of aviation have their ups and downs--EVEN MILITARY AVIATION. When I was a college freshman (1976), several AFROTC juniors and seniors has lost their USAF pilot training slots due to post-Vietnam Era military cutbacks...some were sickened by it...others even bitter. I was undaunted...stayed in the program & HOPED FOR THE BEST. By my senior year (1980...Reagan etc) the military training machine was cranking out pilots in record numbers.. so I was fortunate enough to attend USAF Undergraduate Pilot Training.

Since then...here's what I've seen/experienced

1981 Airline furloughees return to AF active duty
1986/7 AF pilots leave active duty for Airline Jobs
1987 USAF pays pilots a $$ Bonus to stay active duty...I STAYED
1990's Airlines furlough (no opportunity to return to active duty)
1993/4 USAF Reduction-In-Force...BRAC...very few pilot trng slots
1993? USAF Selective Early Retirement Board...some pilots forced to retire...others just "kicked out of the cockpit"... (senior pilots)
1999/00/01 Airlines hire in record numbers and USAF pilots leave active duty in record numbers...
1999 USAF Pays pilots a HUGE $$$ bonus to stay active duty
2001 National tradgedy 911...Airlines furlough...record numbers
2002 Airline furloughees return to AF active duty...I RETIRED

- Obviously the industry is cyclic
- Timing can play a part in your success
- A fortunate few catch the "front side of the wave & ride" in both the military and civilian sectors

I'VE HAD A 22 YEAR LOVE/HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH BOTH FLYING AND THE MILITARY...

- Loved flying & the feeling of absolute freedom it gives you
- Hated checkrides.../but they're necessary...prep is the KEY
- Loved the precision & skill flying demands from pilots
- Hated "undisciplined" pilots who give us all a bad name
- Loved military flying, comaraderie, & military service
- Hated the $$s kissing/politics of the UP/OUT promotion system

LOVE MY NEW FLYING JOB WITH NETJETS...HATE THE FACT THAT SOMEDAY I'LL RETIRE & STOP FLYING (Not age 60 thanks NJA!!)

WOULD DO IT ALL AGAIN & NOT CHANGE A THING!!

CHEERS
DLF8108
 
Dollars

No one else has posted exactly what $80,000 translates to over the next 20 years of your life. You need to understand this math.

Assuming an average interest rate over the life of the loan of 4.25% (I chose this since it is the current Prime Rate and happens to be VERY conservative - this is the lowest prime has been in over 40 years.) and a term of maturity of 20 years, your monthly payments will be $495.38 per month.

In other words, you will repay all $80,000 of principal plus an additional $38,893 in interest.

$495.38 is more than my car payment. Hell, that's a substantial portion of what I pay for rent.

How will you repay this?

This is not negative, this is reality.
 
$80,000!!!

That really is an absurd amount of money for your ratings. I got all my ratings including CFI for under 25k. For 80k you should be getting your ratings including all instructor tickets, a college degree, and a type rating! Come on, don't waste your money like this. There are lots of FBOs that will get you your ratings for well under 30k. That's the way to go. Sallie Mae will usually give you a loan for many of these FBO schools.
 
I will say one thing for Pan Am, they have nice, glossy magazine ads.

Remember the one with the girl between the two brothers? (no subliminal message there)

My favorite so far is the "single mother" ad, shown with her two toddlers. Maybe she was divorced from a very wealthy man, and has $80k to throw about...

Now, to be fair, at least one of our posters instructs at Pan Am, and has done so for a while. He can likely attest to the fine quality of facilities, or the level and quality of the instruction that students receive.

Considering the high cost, and the interest payment that equals almost half of the cost, I have to conclude that this is more than anyone has to pay, and that I would recommend that few students, if any, can really justify those costs.
 
80K

If you read his post...he's already committed to PanAm, so the decision is already made....he and his money are committed.

The good news is hopefully this thread, through the magic of the internet and search engines, will keep others from making the same mistake.
 
I guess I was hoping that it wasn't too late for him to opt out of the contract, pay a small penalty, and save enough money for his kid's college nestegg.

But you're right, d, maybe others will be helped by this discussion.
 
I don't think he cares anymore. xlr857 has long since checked out of this thread. He's driven his red sports car into the sunset. But maybe others learned something.
 
More $'s

People who have decided to fly for a living and make the sacrifices that requires have my respect.

Its a slow day so I toyed around with some more math. Maybe this will help lurkers out there who are thinking about a decision to plunk down $80 grand on their "dream."

Let say that our intrepid xlr857 finishes his $80K flight school and gets a job at a regional (or that he doesn't and becomes a flight instructor somewhere). With an annual income of $20,000, this works out to $1666 per month, gross. (Let's be honest, most flight instructors would kill for a $20K a year job).

Now, in a previous post I said the monthly payment on the $80K student loan would be $495 per month. Lets look at this person's budget.

80% of $1666 is $1333 (ie, after taxes).

$495 - loan payment.
$300 - rent (assuming you have a roomate)

Now, without a car payment or anything else, can you live on the remaining $538 per month??

$538 per month. Subtract from that the cost of transportation - ride the bus if you don't have a car, right? Figure $60 per month.

Now you have $478 per month. So you have a small apartment with a small electric bill and a small no frills phone bill - BTW, you can't afford a cell phone. Figure $30 for the phone and $30 for the electric (pretty conservative).

Now you have $418 per month. Remember that you have not paid for groceries, laundry, toothpaste or weekend movie tickets yet. And this is just for you and assuming that you have a roommate.

$80K just isn't smart unless you are independently wealthy.
 

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