Xe + ev = 1

[ASA Captain]

LOA, TLV, Vacation Low, and negotiating.

26 (2) Airline build options, (TLV) for each position, for each bid run
27 solution:
28 (a) The TLV will be determined by the Company;
29 (b) Credit Window settings:
30 i. The value between the Min and Max will be thirty (30) credit
31 hours or greater;
32 ii. The min value will not be less than ten (10) hours under the
33 TLV;
34 iii. The max value will not be less than fifteen (15) hours over
35 TLV.
36 iv. The TLV for CDOs will be determined by the Company. The
37 value between the Min and Max will be set as provided in
38 paragraphs (b).i.-(b)iii., above.

1 (c) When performing bid run solutions, the Company will not vary
2 the published TLV, as provided for in §13.C.4.d., below, by more
3 than two (2) hours up or down. However, the PWG may waive
4 such limitation on a case-by-case basis to produce a better
5 overall solution. Such waiver will not be unreasonably withheld.
6
7 (d) Notwithstanding paragraph (2)(a)., above, a pilot who has
8 vacation, at his discretion, will have the option to select the TLV
9 at 75 hours for his bidding purposes, minus his vacation virtual
10 credit for that month.
11 (e) A pilot who has vacation, at his discretion, will have the option to
12 use either 3.5 virtual credit hours or 4.0 virtual credit hours for
13 each day of his vacation period applied toward his schedule for
14 the month for which he has vacation.
15 (f) When performing Bid Run solutions, the Company’s selection
16 and use of the PBS administrative panel options will not
17 override a pilot’s selection of the options provided in paragraph
18 (2)(d) and/or (2)(e), above. Refer to Appendix “A” for examples
19 of the application credit(s) and virtual credits in paragraphs
20 (2)(d) and (2)(e), above.

In other words, the TLV can be set by the pilot on vacation to 75 minus virtual vacation credit (70 if the TLV is low that month).


Appendix A
1. Vacation Bid Low option:
4 In a month in which a pilot has vacation, a pilot(s) will have the option to
5 select a threshold line value (TLV) that is the lower of seventy-five (75) hours
6 or if the Company selects a (TLV) for a bid run solution(s) less than seventy7
five (75) hours, then the lower value. The PBS system will have a check box
8 that overrides the (TLV) selected in the administrative panel. If a pilot selects
9 the vacation low option he will be paid the greater of the Minimum Monthly
10 guarantee in Section 4 or the credits he is awarded.
11
12 Example: Company selects a TLV of eighty (80) hours with a min-max of
13 sixty-five (65) and ninety-five (95). The pilot who selects the vacation bid low
14 option will have a threshold of seventy-five (75) hours and a min of sixty-five
15 (65) hours for his bidding purposes. The pilot will have the option to use
16 twenty-four and a one-half (24.5) or twenty-eight (28) hours of virtual credit for
17 bidding purposes.

The pilots TLV overrides the companies TLV when using Vacation Low. This is documented in the LOA and negotiators notes.

I know the world is coming to an end any minute now and companies never honor the contract, but some things you just have to have a little faith in.

There will be fights. There will be grievances. But, for goodness' sake, relax a bit.

No one at ASA wanted PBS. We blocked it in our last contract. But, we are smart enough to see the writing on the wall. You have to choose your battles. We chose to keep our battle outside of Section 6, NMB observed talks. We chose to negotiate a deal on our terms and a vast majority thought it was a good enough deal. This next round we can fix the problems that pop up instead of spending our negotiating chips on preventing or limiting PBS.

 

[skootertrash]

And I counter......

(d) Unstacking will be limited up to thirty percent (30%) of the pilots
in a position in inverse seniority order. In a holiday month,
unstacking will be limited up to fifty percent (50%) of the pilots in
a position in inverse seniority order. However, the PWG may
waive such limitations on a case-by-case basis to cover stacks​

of open time. Such waiver will not be unreasonably withheld

And from your pairing construction......

To the extent reasonably practicable and considering the Company's
utilization parameters, operational productivity and performance, costs
and efficient use of staffing, the Company will construct trips as​

follows:

Don't you understand you just don't use language like that! The company can use it to get out of whatever they want. You say they're gonna do the right thing....then why are they now just recalling all the furloughs and where running you guys so thin all summer?

 

[Nevets]

This deal is big money, especially if JA gets PBS on both EV and XE. To let the deal blow up over contractual issues related to seniority would be very costly. A lawsuit dragging it all out would be very costly.

I hope JA listens to people of your mentality and just honors the XJT contract and be done with any dragged out litigation or arbitration. He wants PBS? Fine, lets negotiate for it at the table as one pilot group.

That is easy to say when you don't have the constant threat of whipsaw from a non-union sister airline. Just as management knows the cost of every line in the contract, we must consider the cost of our negotiating positions. Skywest uses PBS, and a godawful version at that. Skywest, Inc made it very clear that they wanted us to switch to PBS and would push hard for it in negotiations for our next contract. The vast majority of our competitors now use PBS and holding the line on line bidding would likely have been an "unreasonable" position in the eyes of the NMB. Rather than fight a very long battle that would hold the rest of our contract sections hostage, we made the calculated decision to research our options and negotiate early (required by previous contact) for a PBS system that was on our terms. The result was a PBS system from the vendor of our choice, with unprecedented work rules, a modest pay increase, and provisions that will hopefully allow our next CBA to be negotiated much faster than the last one.

The cost of not taking these measures could very likely have been loss of all future flying to Skywest and another lengthy contract negotiating cycle. Until you've been in our position, please don't presume to lecture us. I seriously hope that XE is successful in enforcing their holding letter and removing the whipsaw threat from our JCBA negotiations. When we get to that point, JCBA negotiations are the perfect opportunity to improve or replace the system. Until then, why are we arguing about this?

All this is the reason why all pilot groups should be for one list.

You will be enjoying it too in not so long. Enjoy it while you can....

If they can offer PBS that is pay and QOL neutral, I don't think it will be a problem for most XJT pilots.

 

[JoeMerchant]

All this is the reason why all pilot groups should be for one list.

I was for one list back in 2000 when DAL owned DAL, ASA, and CMR...ALPA wasn't for it...What was your stance on that issue?

If they can offer PBS that is pay and QOL neutral, I don't think it will be a problem for most XJT pilots.

Our PBS LOA came with a pay raise, and if it had been in place for Sept., I would have had a longer vacation and more pay for the month...Try not to rely on CRJ567 and FI for your info on our PBS....

 

[centralpilot]

All this is the reason why all pilot groups should be for one list.

Agreed.

 

[Tarzan]

If they can offer PBS that is pay and QOL neutral, I don't think it will be a problem for most XJT pilots.

You know as well as I, that people generally fear the unknown. PBS thus far for your group and ours is an unknown. People run from stuff such as this. You also know, you can only get as much as the company is willing to offer. Thus you look for trade offs. As mentioned before, why hold an entire contract hostage over PBS when you can do it outside of Section 6 and maintain leverage and be able to walk out whenever.

However, pilots being the whiners they can be will complain about anything given the opportunity. You could offer a room full of pilots $250K a year to only fly one four trip a month and a couple guys would stand up and complain about it be a four day instead of a three day or that they have to have that Saturday off. This job will never be perfect. Doesn't mean we can strive for but we we need to be realistic in our expectations. What we need to understand is that there are parameters that a company must operate within. This BS about this being management's job is utter garbage. We all should be cognizant of it and look for new and better ways to operate in that envelope to keep our jobs secure and not outsourced as so many have in the past.