WSJ - US/UAL merger talks "becoming very serious"

[TWA Dude]

The latest WSJ article stated that United would be the surviving entity.

Certainly the United name would survive but the surviving entity isn't so obvious. AWA was the acquiring carrier (for accounting purposes) and thus the surviving entity yet the US Airways name was chosen. Lots of accounting tricks can be played and Parker is a finance man.

 

[Metrojet]

Certainly the United name would survive but the surviving entity isn't so obvious. AWA was the acquiring carrier (for accounting purposes) and thus the surviving entity yet the US Airways name was chosen. Lots of accounting tricks can be played and Parker is a finance man.

Dude -

So your finally agreeing that it was an accounting trick that AWA used to merge with US - no cash out of pocket - So I guess that continuos loop of "We (AWA) bought you(US)" and saved your butts is finally put to rest as being false!

Metrojet

 

[becket]

Well I see what you are getting at however from a business standpoint why would you merge with just the West in order to secure PHX and leave PHL, CLT, DCA,Europe and the Carribean on the table.

Easy. Get the East to amend the COC language, accept that the only raise they'll ever see is through a joint contract. If they're unwilling, which is a virtual certainty given the level of psychosis that exists over there, simply merge UAL and the West. Grow the UAL side and start dismantling the east with furloughs and replace them with the new UAL.

 

[bizicmo]

if United and USair merger would that make Cal the junior partner of star alliance? and if so how is that any different then being the junior partner of the skyteam alliance, the reason why they left skyteam? Or so they say.

 

[Marko Ramius]

Well I see what you are getting at however from a business standpoint why would you merge with just the West in order to secure PHX and leave PHL, CLT, DCA,Europe and the Carribean on the table. I would venture to say that would cost more than a snap back. In reality our wages need to be snapping back anyway. Last I lookes us (UAL) and USAir are the bottom feeders when it comes to wages.

Playing along with this line of thinking, since Parker has chosen to ignore the Transition Agreement at will thus far, what exactly makes people think he wouldn't do so again if he can't get USAPA to fall on their own swords? Furlough the pilots that they actually want to move to the new company on the East side. Then open up 'West' bases in PHL, CLT, DCA, etc and use the West contract language that allowed them to open LAS with only current and qualified pilots while announcing a recall on the West side of things. Then say that United isn't purchasing the remaining East assets in the deal. A pure bs move? Sure, but it's not like such things are new the history of this business, and I'm sure a group of real lawyers could hatch up something smoother than my FI version. Even the threat of such a scenario could be enough to get USAPA to play ball on several things. At the very least I doubt they have enough financial and legal resources to fight this along with the other fires, one of many facts you chose to ignore when it comes to your zeal for making USAPA, UAPA.

 

[eaglesview]

Playing along with this line of thinking, since Parker has chosen to ignore the Transition Agreement at will thus far, what exactly makes people think he wouldn't do so again if he can't get USAPA to fall on their own swords? Furlough the pilots that they actually want to move to the new company on the East side. Then open up 'West' bases in PHL, CLT, DCA, etc and use the West contract language that allowed them to open LAS with only current and qualified pilots while announcing a recall on the West side of things. Then say that United isn't purchasing the remaining East assets in the deal. A pure bs move? Sure, but it's not like such things are new the history of this business, and I'm sure a group of real lawyers could hatch up something smoother than my FI version. Even the threat of such a scenario could be enough to get USAPA to play ball on several things. At the very least I doubt they have enough financial and legal resources to fight this along with the other fires, one of many facts you chose to ignore when it comes to your zeal for making USAPA, UAPA.

I am having a hard time following this post. However it sounds as though you are proposing that UAL ALPA would go along with throwing another pilot group "under the bus." I highly doubt that.

I don't want to make present day USAPA anything, but ALPA being replaced with "UAPA", a hypothetical name, I have no problem with.

 

[NuGuy]

If CAL doesn't go with UAL, look for them to try for AK next to give them some sort of West Coast presence. And what would happen then most likely? DL trying to C%^$ block them. Southwest will throw their hat in the ring also, but they have way too much overlap to be taken seriously.


Bye Bye---General Lee

SWA could blow DALs "west coast feed solution" out of the water with what they have in the petty cash box. It would put two of the "four corners" in serious peril.

IMHO, DAL is in a panic to build a war chest for a future acquisition, thus the very agressive manner they are paying down debt. They get to get the debt down to a managable level to fund what comes next.

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. CAL, AMR, SWA are all trolling for the west coast and they are gunning for DAL.

CAL WON'T be left as a distant #4. AMR wants payback for the JAL fiasco. SWA is OUT of low hanging domestic destinations, and has to put on their big boy pants and get in the sand box with the rest of us.

UAL and LCC actually compliment each other fairly well. This is the best option for DAL, ATM.

Nu

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Um...What exactly does LCC bring to the table besides CLT? PHL is too close to IAD

 

[32drvr]

Again? Seriously? Didn't the execs make enough money the first time this merger didn't work out? Geez....

 

[TWA Dude]

So your finally agreeing that it was an accounting trick that AWA used to merge with US - no cash out of pocket - So I guess that continuos loop of "We (AWA) bought you(US)" and saved your butts is finally put to rest as being false!

There wasn't any "trick" involved, just routine accounting, but the rest of your statement I agree with (and have stated so since the beginning).

 

[Marko Ramius]

I am having a hard time following this post. However it sounds as though you are proposing that UAL ALPA would go along with throwing another pilot group "under the bus." I highly doubt that.

I don't want to make present day USAPA anything, but ALPA being replaced with "UAPA", a hypothetical name, I have no problem with.

I didn't say anything about UAL ALPA. I was just throwing out a loose scenario for Doogie to try and merge with UAL taking the assets he wants along with the West contract that avoids the snapback. I'm sure others can come up with more nefarious scenarios. You asked why UAL would only want the 'West' and not the 'East' assets, I'm just saying that it may not be as simple as that. I'm not sure UAL ALPA could do anything more about that then they could about which and how many pilots were to be siphoned off to AA in the 2000 deal. A lot of AAA pilots and assets were declared to be excess to that deal by Goodwin, and with AA also acquiring TWA at the same time a blood bath was likely.

As for 'UAPA', careful what you wish for. You can change the name but the combined group will still have the same people who drove USAPA fighting for a voice big time, along with the AWA group, and pretty much all of the 2172. That's a serious cocktail brew, and I'll bet my point about financial and legal resources would be an issue as well. I don't think you'd argue that ALPA has more money than the independents, yet when take a look at the individual MEC accounts. Many are already drawing more from national than they are bringing in, and I'm not just talking regionals here.

 

[Hamburger]

That's about as good of a deal as tying an anchor to an albatross.

 

[satpak77]

I guess one observation from all of this is the seniority list issue has been a "nonissue" reference the CEO's talking merger. They ain't loosing any sleep over the lists, not that I can tell.