Wrong runway at Chicago Midway

[zuka]

Just heard an Airtran flight who refused to land on 31C at MDW because wind was 110 at 6kt

Controller said 31C was the only runway that was available. Airtran had to go hold over CGT to burn off 7,000lbs of fuel.

Kindof messed up, don't know why they wouldn't let them use use 13.

Anybody else have problems with runway length at MDW tonight?

I am always impressed by the controller at MDW who handles ground, tower and clearance with the volume of traffic they get there. Those of you who have flown in at "cargo rush hour" know what I'm talking about.

 

[TDTURBO]

Just heard an Airtran flight who refused to land on 31C at MDW because wind was 110 at 6kt

Controller said 31C was the only runway that was available. Airtran had to go hold over CGT to burn off 7,000lbs of fuel.

Kindof messed up, don't know why they wouldn't let them use use 13.

Anybody else have problems with runway length at MDW tonight?

I am always impressed by the controller at MDW who handles ground, tower and clearance with the volume of traffic they get there. Those of you who have flown in at "cargo rush hour" know what I'm talking about.

Just heard an Airtran flight who refused to land on 31C at MDW because wind was 110 at 6kt

Controller said 31C was the only runway that was available. Airtran had to go hold over CGT to burn off 7,000lbs of fuel.

Kindof messed up, don't know why they wouldn't let them use use 13.

Anybody else have problems with runway length at MDW tonight?

I am always impressed by the controller at MDW who handles ground, tower and clearance with the volume of traffic they get there. Those of you who have flown in at "cargo rush hour" know what I'm talking about.

Chicago appraoch can be abrasive at times as well, I was doing a 3 leg instument proficency flight from IGQ-PIA-JOT where upon getting a handoff to Chicago approach into JOT.

Meanwhile I am listening for a break in the chaos with words like:

CHICAGO APPROACH: CitationV1xx Which approach would you like?

"Citation V" We would like to maintain 240KTS!
"CHICAGO APPROACH" CITATIONV THATS NOT WHAT I ASKED YOU!!!!! YOU ARE WAISTING AIR TIME SO I WILL GET BACK TO YOU. In an extremely loud seething with anger type voice which no doubt was accompanied with a whole host of other undiagnosed behavior disorders.

After giving a few more vectors he asks the Citation if he has a choice of runways and he replies gracefully.

Now with no-one talking for 2 seconds or anybody for him to yell at, I check in.
Cessna 37Tango level 5.

He turns me 90 degrees to T-BONE, I mean intercept the inbound course 1/10 of a mile to intercept and 1 mile from the FAF for the VOR into JOT.

I'm thinking, "wasn't that special" and began scalloping back on track when I then request the full proceedure after the missed.....me.LMAO........Knowing full well he would pop a vessel.

CHICAGO APP: ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!! Screamed from the bottom of his appendix.

Mind you I haven't even slowed down that much yet because I have less that a mile to get established from the 90 degree intercept he gave me when he YELLS, KEEP YOUR SPEED UP 37TANGO!!!!!

Which I immediately comply by going from 120kts to 160kts in a 182RG, long story short we went by JOT at MACH 1 and declared the miss and cancelled under the scud for hood work into the VOR-A into Lansing.

Give those hard working pleasing controllers a hand everybody, better yet give them a few weeks off before they all go nuts!

 

[Tripower455]

I give approach controllers, especially in congested areas, a LOT of credit........ It's bad enough with all of the airline traffic around places like ORD and MDW.

When you mix in the recreational GA guys asking for full procredure turns on practice approaches during the rush periods (which could EASILY be done in a less congested area) etc., it makes their job even harder.

Just my $.02........

 

[regionalcap]

I'm thinking, "wasn't that special" and began scalloping back on track when I then request the full proceedure after the missed.....me.LMAO........Knowing full well he would pop a vessel.

These controllers have their hands full trying to keep airplanes from running into each other.

 

[fokkers&beer]

Its been almost five years since I've been into MDW, but those controllers do a good job. The graveyard controller used to be real short with new hires, especially during bank check rush times. But after going in a few times he was nice and somewhat accomodating. Was the other runway closed or something?

 

[Tripower455]

Was the other runway closed or something?

They probably had 50 airplanes lined up for 31C, so were unable to accomodate a wrong way (13C) landing. Don't know if 22L/4R was closed or not, or if they could even use it....

 

[Ty Webb]

Without knowing all the facts, it's hard to say what the deal was. The 717 can land with up to 10 kts on the tail, but he may have had something MEL'd (like a T/R or the anti-skid).

If he needed to hold and burn down to a specific level, he was apparently working off of the performance data, not just some personal preference.

The controllers can range from rude as hell "Listen up, or we can be doing this over South Bend" to bored, "Call Mikey in the tower when you're ready". Just make sure you check in with "information Bratwurst" or "information Ditka" and you'll have it made.

 

[zuka]

well, that's true something could have been MEL'ed and I don't know the whole story.

With the wind 110 at 6 if they are using 31 they can just as easily use 13 since it's the same strip of asphalt.

Maybe something to do with approaches at ORD

 

[Tripower455]

With the wind 110 at 6 if they are using 31 they can just as easily use 13 since it's the same strip of asphalt.

Maybe something to do with approaches at ORD

MDW rarely uses the 13s, due to confict with ORD. In the 9 years I've been flying in and out of there, I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've used 13C. There are also some takeoff performance issues that make the use of 31C, even with a tailwind, better (for the 737 at least).

 

[wings421]

MDW rarely uses the 13s, due to confict with ORD. In the 9 years I've been flying in and out of there, I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've used 13C. There are also some takeoff performance issues that make the use of 31C, even with a tailwind, better (for the 737 at least).

I used to go to MDW every night. I used 13C three times. Everytime the weather was horrible. Rule of thumb, if they're using 13C, you're gonna get the crap kicked out of you coming down the hill.

 

[aeronautic1]

Movie

Simply put, rent "Pushing Tin"

 

[Tripower455]

Simply put, rent "Pushing Tin"

LOL....... Don't forget to add the GA guys shooting practice approaches like they did in P.T.!

 

[saabcaptain]

The Chicago approach controllers who work MDW are top notch the best I have seen. They are abrasive, tolerate few errors, and often place blame where it doesn't need to be. All easily acceptable for the job they do which is move planes in tight spaces in the most efficent demonstration I have yet seen of ATC.

Sometimes you just have to let it go.

(To the orginial poster... sometimes using 13C is simply not possible due to runways in use at ORD, not to mention counter flowing traffic from MDW but all that being said there is always a strong reluctance in general to turn the airport to a new runway at MDW, in particular 13C which causes the largest delays.)

 

[IP076]

been in Midway quite a few times, one that really sticks out!

13C/31C was closed. Wind was 210@ (about) 8, IIRC. It was southwest, and not calm, for sure. The ceiling was something around 300 or 400, and about 1 mile vis. Talk about a "Charlie Foxtrot"! The only approach they could run was the ILS 4R...too low cielings to circle to 22 from 4R or 31C. So, they were landing and departing on 4R with about a 8 knot tailwind....no problem in the van, but there were a few SWA and ATA guys that couldn't do the tailwind departure, they had to use 22L.....Ended up they opened 22L for departures for a few minutes on the hour to let the people out that needed 22L...all in all, it was a major CF....but joys of fun!

 

[Flibmeister]

Approaches to 13C at Midway are problematical. For one thing, it automatically shuts down runway 22L departures at ORD (they used to be allowed, so long as they made a right turn to 250 degrees or more immediately after takeoff; too many slow turners eventually led to the loss of that option).

From a controller viewpoint, 13C is a hard runway to vector to: it's proximity to ORD (and the presence of tall buildings in the Loop) mandate a much more precise vector pattern than is normally required-- virtually every airplane has to fly an identical downwind-base-final track, and the turn-on has to be at a precise point (not too close to the marker, but not close enough to ORD to cause a problem). Because of ORD, the controller doesn't have the option to just extend the downwind and run a "string of pearls" on final.

Bottom line, it takes a lot more concentration than vectoring to a "normal" runway-- so if it's the middle of the night and one controller is working both arrival and departure (and maybe the ORD traffic, too), it's something most controllers aren't inclined to do unless absolutely necessary.

 

[zuka]

The Chicago approach controllers who work MDW are top notch the best I have seen.

Yeah, I do have respect for these guys.

 

[gfvalvo]

I give approach controllers, especially in congested areas, a LOT of credit........ It's bad enough with all of the airline traffic around places like ORD and MDW.

When you mix in the recreational GA guys asking for full procredure turns on practice approaches during the rush periods (which could EASILY be done in a less congested area) etc., it makes their job even harder.

Just my $.02........

Hmmmmm. Last I checked, the airlines don't OWN the airspace.

Greg

 

[Tripower455]

Hmmmmm. Last I checked, the airlines don't OWN the airspace.

Greg

True, but if you are wondering why controllers are short with you, consider that trying to mix a 100 knot airplane in with 50 others doing 250 is no easy task. Use sound SA and go play somewhere else.

It's the same as the octagenarian driving 40 in the left lane of the interstate wondering why every one is passing him. If he is going to drive that slow, he should take a secondary road.

If you need to practice approaches, do touch and goes etc., there are plenty of non congested facilities to do that in. Don't be surprised if Chicago approach is less than enthusiastic about giving you vectors to practice NDB approaches in MDW.....

 

[gfvalvo]

True, but if you are wondering why controllers are short with you, consider that trying to mix a 100 knot airplane in with 50 others doing 250 is no easy task. Use sound SA and go play somewhere else.

It's the same as the octagenarian driving 40 in the left lane of the interstate wondering why every one is passing him. If he is going to drive that slow, he should take a secondary road.

If you need to practice approaches, do touch and goes etc., there are plenty of non congested facilities to do that in. Don't be surprised if Chicago approach is less than enthusiastic about giving you vectors to practice NDB approaches in MDW.....

I agree 100% with all of this, except I take exception to you using the term "play". I may not be flying an airliner and I may not be getting paid to fly, but I'm not playing. I practice and hone my instrument flying skills to the extent that my available time and budget allow. Professionalism in aviation is an attitude, not a paycheck. I fly single pilot IFR with my family on board. Those are the most precious PAX I can imagine. GA is the most enjoyable way for us to travel because for trips less than 500 nm the airlines SUCK and waste my time. That's not to mention the shear joy of piloting a small airplane.



GFV

 

[Tripower455]

I agree 100% with all of this, except I take exception to you using the term "play". I may not be flying an airliner and I may not be getting paid to fly, but I'm not playing. I practice and hone my instrument flying skills to the extent that my available time and budget allow. Professionalism in aviation is an attitude, not a paycheck. I fly single pilot IFR with my family on board. Those are the most precious PAX I can imagine. GA is the most enjoyable way for us to travel because for trips less than 500 nm the airlines SUCK and waste my time. That's not to mention the shear joy of piloting a small airplane

Well, honing your IFR skills in a busy airspace in an airplane that's travelling 100 knots slower than the rest of the traffic is inconsiderate and unprofessional. You have a choice of where to practice (play), and purposely choosing hi density airspace is bad SA. Don't be surprised when the controllers in these areas are a little short with you........

BTW, I started life as a GA guy on Long Island, and learned REAL quick that it was far better to go practice instrument stuff at Farmingdale, Groton or Bridgeport etc. than LaGuardia. Why get everyone mad when I could go somewhere else and play.

One of my first jobs was slot preservation at LGA (if you don't use your slots a certain % of the time, you lose them). If the airline had no one booked, they'd send me from FRG in whatever airplane was available (usually a Warrior or Arrow, but once in a while, a 152/172!). Talk about being in the way! At least when they let me take the B36, I could do 140/150 or so to the marker, and still land.......... try that in a Cessna (heck, even Citations seem to have a problem with that one )