Wow! This may be a fun flight! Florida to Moscow

[NW_Pilot]

A guy contacted me to ferry an airplane from South Florida To Moscow Russia "Baron 58 with 300 gallon aux ferry tank on top of stock 166 Gallons" I have been looking at http://www.alaska.faa.gov/Internat/Russia/Guide_Page.cfm for flight info any other advice from any personal experience in dealing with Russia? I figure the Bering Straight crossing would be the safest route with less time over water since both engines are about 50 hours till recommended TBO.



I have untill June 1st to plan this he has booked me a round trip airline ticket to go and hire a mechanic to inspect the airplane (my requirement since it's going over large area of water) & have the ferry tank installed so he seems pretty serious. He wants it deliverd no later than July 10th 2006.

 

[Diesel]

Enjoy the green route but russia sucks.

Bring a conversion calculator. Stupid russians.

 

[Geronimo4497]

Stupid russians.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

 

[MFRskyknight]

Yeehaw! Sounds fun.

MFR

 

[gkrangers]

Wow...you'll have enough multi time for a "real" job then.

 

[A Squared]

OK, I have to ask, have you pulled out a globe and looked at it, and looked at where Florida is, and looked at where Moscow is? I ask, because Moscow is much closer going the other way, and trust me, much less of a hassle.

I'm friends with some folks who have flown to Russia from Alaska. It's an incredible paperwork nightmare. You get permission for a single day and time. if you don't make that, you reapply for another slot. You fly a designated route at a designated time. You have to report certain positions within certain times or problems result. There is no Avgas. The folks I know ship drums of avgas to Proividenya ahead of time. The Alaska Airman's Association is probably your best source of information. They will likely seem engouraging, but you should be aware that they have been tilting at this particular windmill with summer trips for 15 years, and as far as I know they haven't yet made as far a Anadyr. Look up Providenya and Anadyr on a chart. Now look how much further Moscow is. Getting to Providenya, while a monumental hassle, will be the easy part. they are used to the yearly tours from the crazy Alaskans. there are folks who are willing to store the fuel for them rather than sell it on the Black Market. The customs and aviation officials are used to dealing with them. Once you're beyond Anadyr, none of this will be true. You'll be flying across some of the most desolate terrain you could ever imagine. Makes Alaska seem positively suburban. Facilities, fuel, Maintenance will be non-existent. I don't mean non-existent as in "hard to find", I mean non-existent as in "they don't exist", no matter how hard you look. I don't know what sort of range 466 gallons will give you, but unless it will take you comfortably from Nome to Moscow wihout refuelling, your fuel logistics will be a *very* serious and uncertain understaking.

If I had an airplane here in Anchorage which I needed to fly to Moscow, I'd give some very serious though to flying East. (approximately same distance, significantly less hassle) If I were in Florida, it would be a no-brainer. Going East you have civilization, you have countries that actually have private civil aviation, so will have fuel, services, etc, readily available at least as far east as Germany, after that, it will get increasingly more difficult, but from Germany, Moscow would be a fairly comfortable, if long flight on the airways

 

[part61]

aa

yep thats the way (east) i assumed you were going. qubec, gander....

 

[NW_Pilot]

OK, I have to ask, have you pulled out a globe and looked at it, and looked at where Florida is, and looked at where Moscow is? I ask, because Moscow is much closer going the other way, and trust me, much less of a hassle.

I'm friends with some folks who have flown to Russia from Alaska. It's an incredible paperwork nightmare. You get permission for a single day and time. if you don't make that, you reapply for another slot. You fly a designated route at a designated time. You have to report certain positions within certain times or problems result. There is no Avgas. The folks I know ship drums of avgas to Proividenya ahead of time. The Alaska Airman's Association is probably your best source of information. They will likely seem engouraging, but you should be aware that they have been tilting at this particular windmill with summer trips for 15 years, and as far as I know they haven't yet made as far a Anadyr. Look up Providenya and Anadyr on a chart. Now look how much further Moscow is. Getting to Providenya, while a monumental hassle, will be the easy part. they are used to the yearly tours from the crazy Alaskans. there are folks who are willing to store the fuel for them rather than sell it on the Black Market. The customs and aviation officials are used to dealing with them. Once you're beyond Anadyr, none of this will be true. You'll be flying across some of the most desolate terrain you could ever imagine. Makes Alaska seem positively suburban. Facilities, fuel, Maintenance will be non-existent. I don't mean non-existent as in "hard to find", I mean non-existent as in "they don't exist", no matter how hard you look. I don't know what sort of range 466 gallons will give you, but unless it will take you comfortably from Nome to Moscow wihout refuelling, your fuel logistics will be a *very* serious and uncertain understaking.

If I had an airplane here in Anchorage which I needed to fly to Moscow, I'd give some very serious though to flying East. (approximately same distance, significantly less hassle) If I were in Florida, it would be a no-brainer. Going East you have civilization, you have countries that actually have private civil aviation, so will have fuel, services, etc, readily available at least as far east as Germany, after that, it will get increasingly more difficult, but from Germany, Moscow would be a fairly comfortable, if long flight on the airways

A Squared, Thanks for the info Yes I Have pulled a Globe and looked. Right now I am just in the planning stages I am checking all available options to reduce the over water time. Seller don't seem to care about costs of getting it there more worried about goverment fees etc. I know the North Atlantic Route would be best but considering the engines are at TBO ‘Unknown’ I will have a wrench go through them either way I go. It would not cost much more to add an additional 160 gallons http://www.turtlepac.com/collapsibleair.htm so I am just researching my options for now as it’s not a done deal as finial destination may even be Finland or Turkey if it's there then NA is the way for sure the buyer has not decided depends on how he want to import it to Russia. Anyways The multi time will be great run her at 55 to 60% power and rack up some good solo multi time.

 

[A Squared]

Well, it does sound like and interesting trip. These folks proably have more information about getting a small plane from Alaska to the Russian Far East than anyone else on the planet. http://www.alaskaairmen.com/

Good luck

 

[MFRskyknight]

yep thats the way (east) i assumed you were going. qubec, gander....

Aw, shoot, but I was hoping he could stop by S. Oregon and let me fly it...

MFR

 

[Kingair1181]

Just wondering how long do you expect this flight to take!?

I have known two people who have flown from the US to Europe (one in a single engine aircraft) and both enjoyed their trip beyond words. It's been a while since I talked to em but I'll see if I can't track them down and get some insight if I can. Are you going to fly solo or take a friend/fellow pilot with you and how many days rougly are you planning on taking? I also wonder how many lines in your logbook this flight is going to take....

 

[NW_Pilot]

Just wondering how long do you expect this flight to take!?

I have known two people who have flown from the US to Europe (one in a single engine aircraft) and both enjoyed their trip beyond words. It's been a while since I talked to em but I'll see if I can't track them down and get some insight if I can. Are you going to fly solo or take a friend/fellow pilot with you and how many days rougly are you planning on taking? I also wonder how many lines in your logbook this flight is going to take....

100% Solo, I will be on a Special Flight Permit & will be pushing gross or over gross with myself, safety gear & full fuel! I have not calculated the hours yet as the buyer (New Owner) is unsure exactly where he wants me to drop it off at. I figure 7 to 12 days depending on weather and service availability (i don't want to pay no over time fees $$$$$) I May have to break the news to the owner 300gal ferry tank may be to much for this aircraft he already has the tank on it’s way owner is insistent that it’s the proper one! Plus all the seats but pilot & copilot have been removed boxed and are ready to be shipped. We will see what the local airport wrench & FSDO has to say about the tank. I know I have had a plane with a ferry tank that was ok over gross on a permit “daylight hours VFR only while operating over gross yada yada yada” how far the FSDO will let it go over on the ferry permit no telling will find out when all the details are done in June.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Aw, shoot, but I was hoping he could stop by S. Oregon and let me fly it...

MFR

MFR, When you called this morning I was on the phone about this flight guy was calling from moscow sorry! I tried to call back machine was recived!

 

[NW_Pilot]

Well, it does sound like and interesting trip. These folks proably have more information about getting a small plane from Alaska to the Russian Far East than anyone else on the planet. http://www.alaskaairmen.com/

Good luck

Thank You, Exact info I was looking for looks like N.A.C. is the way to go!

 

[Diesel]

go east and take the green route. Going over alaska means there are a lot of desolate places in siberia.

 

[MFRskyknight]

MFR, When you called this morning I was on the phone about this flight guy was calling from moscow sorry! I tried to call back machine was recived!

Yeah, my battery was dead, but it's cool, my boss wasn't gonna let me fly back to Medford anyway (company time, liability, blah blah). Just as well though... wx was a beyotch all the way down to about Grants Pass. Got POURED on almost all the way and our driver nearly got us in a god-danged wreck. Idiot...good thing a guy THREE ROWS BACK was paying attention to the road.

Well Portland was fun though... can't complain about the $7 t-bone at the Acropolis!

MFR

P.S.--I'm budgeting for a flight down to SNA on May 21st for a family get-together...if I can swing it sooner or later, I'd like to fly the Comanche up to McMinnville and check out the museum. I'll let ya know when I'm headed up there.

 

[TurboS7]

Eastern Route is real easy. Just go to Goose then to BGBW and then to Rekavik. At Rekavik(SP)there is a real nice hotel to stay all. From there to the Farlo Islands and then across to Moscow. That is the easy way to go. That time of the year it will always be light so no big deal for your ferry permit. You can go Gandar to KEF with that much fuel, man you have a lot of fuel for a ferry flight, a little overkill if you ask me.

 

[sleddriver71]

Just out of curiosity, how much is this guy paying you to do this for him?

 

[NW_Pilot]

Just out of curiosity, how much is this guy paying you to do this for him?

You, really don't want to know!!!! I fell like a 2 bit whore that taking food stamps for my services!!! But if you insist $1,000 + Expenses = WOW $$$$$. The Experience & Baron Time may be well worth it.:beer:

 

[NW_Pilot]

man you have a lot of fuel for a ferry flight, a little overkill if you ask me.

That’s what I told him!!! But he was insistent about what size of tank its going to need I guess the tank will fit I called turtlepac they also say baron use up to 300 gallons!

I am not going to argue my self out of a run so, so be it! If he wants 300 gal then 300 gal it is! I don't have to top it off, Do I!!!!!!

 

[NW_Pilot]

Y
Well Portland was fun though... can't complain about the $7 t-bone at the Acropolis!

MFR

Hey, Usually they have the best naked female humans in portland also but you were here on a weekday :laugh: ohh well! Steak & Girls!!! Portland has the best Strip Clubs in the US!!!

 

[timeoff]

But if you insist $1,000 + Expenses = WOW $$$$$

Don't look now, but I believe you are getting taken to cleaners. A g-note for that much prep and going on engines that are "tbo unknown". Once in a lifetime flight yes, but the risk v. reward? I mean, what are the performance characteristics when you lose an engine on the climb while still over gross? I'd say double your fee.

Interesting flight none the less.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Don't look now, but I believe you are getting taken to cleaners. A g-note for that much prep and going on engines that are "tbo unknown". Once in a lifetime flight yes, but the risk v. reward? I mean, what are the performance characteristics when you lose an engine on the climb while still over gross? I'd say double your fee.

Interesting flight none the less.

Nope, I am Unable to double my fee because there are to many asshole flight instructors and pilots that will do it for free just to log the time! I have to keep my rates just below reasonable to secure the deals! I enjoy flying & ferrying aircraft. It's always an adventure if I bust my ass like I always do I make some decent money.

 

[Check 6]

NWP, don't forget your HF radio and liferaft. You will also need to file ICAO flight plans and getting your flight plan routing accepted in Europe is a real challenge. This is why most operators use Universal or Airinc to do their flight planning.

 

[HS125]

Nope, I am Unable to double my fee because there are to many asshole flight instructors and pilots that will do it for free just to log the time! I have to keep my rates just below reasonable to secure the deals! I enjoy flying & ferrying aircraft. It's always an adventure if I bust my ass like I always do I make some decent money.

From your Website:

Aircraft Delivery & Relocation Service
Safe - Reliable - Professional - Quick - Affordable
Domestic & International - General Aviation Aircraft Ferry Pilot Service

A Squared, Thanks for the info Yes I Have pulled a Globe and looked. Right now I am just in the planning stages I am checking all available options to reduce the over water time. Seller don't seem to care about costs of getting it there more worried about goverment fees etc.

100% Solo, I will be on a Special Flight Permit & will be pushing gross or over gross with myself, safety gear & full fuel! I have not calculated the hours yet as the buyer (New Owner) is unsure exactly where he wants me to drop it off at. I figure 7 to 12 days depending on weather and service availability

NW Pilot;

I'm not trying to bust your chops. But, a grand + expenses for a week and a half's worth of work plus all the prep to make this trip is way too low. The owner is buying an airplane worth somewhere in the range of $500,000 U.S. and has hired you for your expertise to safely deliver it half way around the world. In the big picture $2,000 - $3,000 is still probably a bargain.

The owner has come to you because you advertise yourself as a professional at what you do and that you will do the job right and deliver the airplane. If the owner wasn't concerned about that, he/she wouldn't have hired you for the job. He would have hired one of those pilots who will do it for free. You get what you pay for!

If it was me making the flight, (besides asking for more money) I would take the Blue Spruce routes. There are more options for you if you encounter any difficulties along the way. If you have mechanical issues, you stand a better chance of getting proper maintenance somewhere in Europe rather than some BFE airport in Russia. Also, I would talk to and work with somebody like Air Routing to set up handling along the way.

 

[414Flyer]

Nope, I am Unable to double my fee because there are to many asshole flight instructors and pilots that will do it for free just to log the time! I have to keep my rates just below reasonable to secure the deals! I enjoy flying & ferrying aircraft. It's always an adventure if I bust my ass like I always do I make some decent money.

I did a couple crossings last year, and it was 1500 for those, which was still too low. I know you are worried about being undercut, but you are probably also undercutting experienced professionals who do it for a career.

Anyways, have you also considered all the equipment you will need? immersion suit, raft, inflatable lift vest, portable ELT or EPIRB. Get your expenses up front too. You will have a heart attack when you see the fuel bill in BIRK, although its possibly you might be able to go st johns to Wick Scotland without stopping in BIRK.

A CFI or someone with no experience would never get insured for this kind or trip. There is probably a lot of metal on the ocean floor between St Johns NFLD and Europe, so realize its a pretty unforgiving environmen too.

You can file your own flight plans, just learn how ICAO flight plans are done. You can get away without an HF radio depending on the route you take.

 

[Check 6]

VHF coverage on the "Blue Spruce" routes are not continuous at FL100 (10,000 in the U.S.) and below, at least that is what the authorities say. I have had good VHF comms on the "Blue Spruce" routes but at FL270/280. Considering he will be flying a non-pressurized Baron I assumed he would not be above FL100.

NW pilot you MUST have continuous VHF comms on your complete route or you SHALL have a working HF radio. There are many other issues involved that you need to study up on and know from memory.

NW pilot I agree with the other contributors that doing this trip for $1000 is not worth it. Yes, N. Atlantic crossing are exciting and challenging, but you are dealing with someone from SOUTH FLORIDA. That alone should raise some flags.

You will not likely have life insurance for this trip, so you should consider that if you have a family.

I made my most recently N. Atlantic crossing in January, so like other contributors here I know what I am talking about. You should be taking an Intl. Procedures Course (offered by many vendors) that costs more than $1000, or at least receive some serious training from someone who has done this a few times.

That water is cold down there my friend and a Baron with possible runout engines is a roll of the dice. Did I mention wife and kids?

The guy selling this Baron, more likely brokering it, is receiving 10% or more in commissions, and taking NO RISKS. You are taking all of the risks for $1000.

ICAO flights plans are not that simple in the Oceanic and European environment. Yes, you can fill them out but they will be rejected. I just completed a 6-1/2 contract domiciled in Italy and became quite familiar with Eurocontrol and ECAC, etc. It has become very complex. There are many other FP issues and regulations.

Lastly, I used to teach Oceanic/MNPS/RVSM ops and have made a few crossings. I would not ferry this Baron out of SOUTH FLORIDA for any amount of money, and I am currently unemployed.

 

[414Flyer]

I was going to take a 172 to Slovenia from FL October of last year, but it broke down enroute to maine. Never did get to finish the trip.

We were going to go Goose Bay - BIRK - Wick route, which should have been able to keep us in VHF comms, even a piston single, probably at at least 10,000 ft as mentioned. I have done St Johns - BIRK without HF, but other plane flying with me had it, so he just relayed my position reports for me. If one wants to go into places like Shannon, HF is mandatory since it is Shanwick Oceanic. I took a Warrior to Denmark last year, and brought a Cheyenne back from India before that. Didnt have HF for the Arabian sea, just kinda faked it

For going to Moscow, it might be possible to go east from BIRK (Reykjavik) to Norway, but HF will most definitely be needed.

I am not sure who is going to be tanking it, but have a reputable outfit tank, and inspect it. Globe Aero in Lakeland would be good for that. Because, you will be betting your life.

When I used to live and fly in Hawaii, there was a young hungry CFI who was going to take a Baron from Hilo to Cali. Lost an engine right after takeoff, crashed right back to the runway and died in a fiery crash.

If you end up doing it, you might consider when you leave for one of the oceanic legs, do it the same time as someone else, arrange a VHF freq to stay in contact with them. Maybe you can hang out in Gander, St Johns, or Goose Bay and wait on someone going across also to link up with.

 

[psysicx]

Wouldn't a Sat phone be a good idea for something like this? Ferrying sounds fun is it hard to make a living doing this?

 

[GravityHater]

you MJST report back when you return, we want to hear all the details!