Wow Pinnacle's Delta numbers suck

[JoeMerchant]

You will not find true unity among any group-unionized or not, no matter what the profession.

It is all about self-interest, and always will be. Just look at US Air and AWA. Self-interest. You can bet the DAL/NWA guys will dream up new and inventive ways to try and screw each other.

Don't expect selfless sacrifice from any work group of any kind. No one wants to lose their job, and no one will turn down a raise. So if a raise means some other poor slob gets hosed, oh well-that's life in the big city!

I am not saying it is right, only that it is a core component of human nature and it will never change. There is never going to be a "brand scope" (RJDC concoction)-or a national pilot seniority list, never, ever, ever.

(BTW, I was there when that Ford guy from Comair came and gave the RJDC song and dance-I heard "brand scope" about 483 times and "fiduciary" even more!) What a retard!!

Just keep in mind that in then real world, in real life, there is no chance of people ever acting too selflessly-at least not in large groups. Not gonna happen-quit being so idealistic!

-Just reference your signature line-same diff.

.....OK then why the pretend image of a "union" and "brotherhood"? Let's just screw each other and save the 2% of our pay.....

You may be right....which makes my case for me...ALPA is a joke...

If that is the case, then I want the biggest airplanes we can get....and I don't want my union to say we can't have them....ALPA can't have it both ways....Either we are one.....or we are separate.....ALPA needs to make up it's mind...

 

[PCL_128]

It has everything to do with a bunch of pretend union members trying to take each other's flying

Something can't be "taken" from you when you don't own it in the first place. Regional airlines don't own the flying they do. They simply borrow whatever the mainline carriers lend them. The idea of ASA pilots complaining that Pinnacle pilots are "taking your flying" is asinine at best. You don't own that flying anymore than I do.

 

[PCL_128]

Keep in mind that with the merger.......all bets are off. It like BK

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? No, it is not like BK at all. The "new" Delta is beholden to the old Delta and NWA agreements that have merger protections in them, and the PCL Air Service Agreement and Capacity Purchase Agreement contain those protections.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Something can't be "taken" from you when you don't own it in the first place. Regional airlines don't own the flying they do. They simply borrow whatever the mainline carriers lend them. The idea of ASA pilots complaining that Pinnacle pilots are "taking your flying" is asinine at best. You don't own that flying anymore than I do.

So if the Delta pilots "own" it....why did we do it while their pilots were on furlough....

Either:

1. They sold it and didn't really "own" it anymore...

or

2. They did own it, but they didn't care about their junior pilots and the price was right for the senior folks to sell it....

Either way....not much of a union we have here.....

You can type until your blue in the face.....but I will not support a union that says my job is "owned" by another group......I would rather burn the union to the ground than accept that premise.....

 

[McNugent]

You are a worthless pile of sh*t. Enough said.

Ouch! You almost hurt my feeling there mister.:crying:

 

[PCL_128]

Think of it as a leaseback. They own the flying, but they agreed for a set amount of time to allow it to go to another group. They still retain ultimate ownership rights, but you are allowed the use for a given period of time, which in this case is the duration of the agreement.

 

[DoinTime]

So if the Delta pilots "own" it....why did we do it while their pilots were on furlough....

Delta pilots don't "own" Delta flying. Northwest pilots don't "own" Northwest flying. The pilots contract that flying with the corporate entity that own the brand name.

If the mainline pilots owned that flying there would be no need for contract language identifying such.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Think of it as a leaseback. They own the flying, but they agreed for a set amount of time to allow it to go to another group. They still retain ultimate ownership rights, but you are allowed the use for a given period of time, which in this case is the duration of the agreement.

Then why did they allow it to be "leased" while their pilots were on furlough? Not much of a union.....you can't win this one....

Either they don't really own it....or the senior folks sell it for $ and screw the junior folks...either way ALPA has some issues that you refuse to acknowledge....

Again I will never support a union that says my job belongs to another group.....Ain't going to happen...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Delta pilots don't "own" Delta flying. Northwest pilots don't "own" Northwest flying. The pilots contract that flying with the corporate entity that own the brand name.

If the mainline pilots owned that flying there would be no need for contract language identifying such.

....none of us "own" or "contract" for this flying....we are now all bidding on it because we as a group gave up on scope.....Now this job is mine and I will do what is necessary to keep it....regardless of what you or any other "brother" wants or thinks......

 

[PCL_128]

Then why did they allow it to be "leased" while their pilots were on furlough? Not much of a union.....you can't win this one....

You know that I'm not a fan of outsourcing. I'm not defending the "leasing," I'm just telling it like it is. ASA pilots don't own any flying, so they shouldn't be complaining when Pinnacle gets some. That is the point.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You know that I'm not a fan of outsourcing. I'm not defending the "leasing," I'm just telling it like it is. ASA pilots don't own any flying, so they shouldn't be complaining when Pinnacle gets some. That is the point.

So answer the question....Why did they "lease" it while their pilots were on the street? We were hiring while DAL was furloughing...

Either they didn't care, or they didn't really "own" it...Those are the only two answers....

 

[PCL_128]

So answer the question....Why did they "lease" it while their pilots were on the street? We were hiring while DAL was furloughing...

I can't answer for them. They'll have to tell you why they did it. Ask the General. He voted YES to expanded outsourcing. I'm against all of it. Scope clauses should be one line: "All flying performed for XYZ Holdings will be accomplished by pilots on the XYZ seniority list in accordance with the XYZ CBA."

 

[JoeMerchant]

I can't answer for them. They'll have to tell you why they did it. Ask the General. He voted YES to expanded outsourcing. I'm against all of it. Scope clauses should be one line: "All flying performed for XYZ Holdings will be accomplished by pilots on the XYZ seniority list in accordance with the XYZ CBA."

....the ASA and CMR pilots proposed that in 2000, but mainline arrogance prevented it....

I told you the two possible answers and neither one really puts ALPA in a positive light...

1. The senior mainlin pilots sold out their junior "brothers"....

or

2. They didn't really own the flying in the first place....

Either way ALPA looks bad.....

Those jobs that were outsourced now belong to us....My job doesn't belong to the DAL MEC regardless of how much you want it to at this point....

We can work on this together if ALPA wants to acknowledge that we have input...or we can continue to fight amongst ourselves....The choice is ALPA's and I am ready for either choice.....

This isn't open for debate....We won't have our jobs become mainline bargaining chips....We will burn the union to the ground before we accept that.....

 

[pilotbrain]

[We will burn the union to the ground before we accept that.....[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about? YOU arn't going to burn any union down. You will KILL your own pilot group and everyone else will pick up the scraps.

 

[TurboAWD]

1) Yes, Pinnacle sucks (not the pilots, the airline)

2) No Pinnacle pilot ever flew a CRJ900 for 200 rates. All of those pilots will be payed back pay to the recently set rates.

Turbo