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Wow Pinnacle's Delta numbers suck

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PCL_128 said:
You know that I'm not a fan of outsourcing. I'm not defending the "leasing," I'm just telling it like it is. ASA pilots don't own any flying, so they shouldn't be complaining when Pinnacle gets some. That is the point.
Click to expand...

So answer the question....Why did they "lease" it while their pilots were on the street? We were hiring while DAL was furloughing...

Either they didn't care, or they didn't really "own" it...Those are the only two answers....
 
JoeMerchant said:
So answer the question....Why did they "lease" it while their pilots were on the street? We were hiring while DAL was furloughing...
Click to expand...

I can't answer for them. They'll have to tell you why they did it. Ask the General. He voted YES to expanded outsourcing. I'm against all of it. Scope clauses should be one line: "All flying performed for XYZ Holdings will be accomplished by pilots on the XYZ seniority list in accordance with the XYZ CBA."
 
PCL_128 said:
I can't answer for them. They'll have to tell you why they did it. Ask the General. He voted YES to expanded outsourcing. I'm against all of it. Scope clauses should be one line: "All flying performed for XYZ Holdings will be accomplished by pilots on the XYZ seniority list in accordance with the XYZ CBA."
Click to expand...

....the ASA and CMR pilots proposed that in 2000, but mainline arrogance prevented it....

I told you the two possible answers and neither one really puts ALPA in a positive light...

1. The senior mainlin pilots sold out their junior "brothers"....

or

2. They didn't really own the flying in the first place....

Either way ALPA looks bad.....

Those jobs that were outsourced now belong to us....My job doesn't belong to the DAL MEC regardless of how much you want it to at this point....

We can work on this together if ALPA wants to acknowledge that we have input...or we can continue to fight amongst ourselves....The choice is ALPA's and I am ready for either choice.....

This isn't open for debate....We won't have our jobs become mainline bargaining chips....We will burn the union to the ground before we accept that.....
 
[We will burn the union to the ground before we accept that.....[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about? YOU arn't going to burn any union down. You will KILL your own pilot group and everyone else will pick up the scraps.
 
1) Yes, Pinnacle sucks (not the pilots, the airline)

2) No Pinnacle pilot ever flew a CRJ900 for 200 rates. All of those pilots will be payed back pay to the recently set rates.

Turbo
 
And as far as on time performance goes....This is not necessarily a pilot function.

The pilot is part of a team. These pilots whom are my co-workers are top notch. I know many of these guys and they operate professional, safe and legal flights every day. This is in their control.

Now the three ringed circus that goes on with the rest of the operation is a function of how the upper management leads...it is management's responsibility to staff the airline.

It is managements responsibility to provide parts to maintain aircraft.

It is management's responsibility to have well trained individuals and to make Pinnacle a place that is not constantly plauged with the chaos that high turnover causes.

So for my Pinnacle brothers in ATL keep up the good work.
 
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JoeMerchant said:
....the ASA and CMR pilots proposed that in 2000, but mainline arrogance prevented it....
Click to expand...

Arrogance was certainly a problem, but not from the mainline pilots....

I told you the two possible answers and neither one really puts ALPA in a positive light...
Click to expand...

And I reject your two answers. Neither are accurate.
 
PCL_128 said:
Arrogance was certainly a problem, but not from the mainline pilots....
Click to expand...

How so? It is the mainline pilots who think they are superior....It is they who are opposed to a single list....


PCL_128 said:
And I reject your two answers. Neither are accurate.
Click to expand...

How do you figure? According to you, they owned the flying. We also know that they were furloughing while the regionals were hiring.....

There are only 2 answers... Either they didn't really own the flying, or they didn't care enough to negotiate jobs for their furloughed "brothers"...There is no other way to spin it....
 
JoeMerchant said:
How so? It is the mainline pilots who think they are superior....It is they who are opposed to a single list....
Click to expand...

No ego compares to that of a regional pilot who believes that he deserves anything more than a staple in a merger with a mainline carrier. Plenty of you RJDC wankers thought you deserved far more than a staple job. That's immense ego.

How do you figure? According to you, they owned the flying. We also know that they were furloughing while the regionals were hiring.....

There are only 2 answers... Either they didn't really own the flying, or they didn't care enough to negotiate jobs for their furloughed "brothers"...There is no other way to spin it....
Click to expand...

They owned the flying and decided to outsource it. How much they "cared" for the furloughed pilots is debatable, but we can always remember that you and JC didn't give a damn about them. That much is certain.
 
PCL_128 said:
No ego compares to that of a regional pilot who believes that he deserves anything more than a staple in a merger with a mainline carrier. Plenty of you RJDC wankers thought you deserved far more than a staple job. That's immense ego.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with using ALPA merger policy? Is there something wrong with ALPA merger policy?

PCL_128 said:
They owned the flying and decided to outsource it. How much they "cared" for the furloughed pilots is debatable, but we can always remember that you and JC didn't give a damn about them. That much is certain.
Click to expand...

I care about them as much as they care about me....Mainline pilots only care about their regional "brothers" when they are getting furloughed.....
 
There are only 2 answers... Either they didn't really own the flying, or they didn't care enough to negotiate jobs for their furloughed "brothers"...There is no other way to spin it....[/quote]

You points are well thought out but I think you are missing one point.

If they didnt own the flying than explain Jets for Jobs.
 
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JoeMerchant said:
What's wrong with using ALPA merger policy? Is there something wrong with ALPA merger policy?
Click to expand...

Do you think you deserved more than a staple? If so, you have an ego problem beyond imagination.
 
pilotbrain said:
You points are well thought out but I think you are missing one point.

If they didnt own the flying than explain Jets for Jobs.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!!...We didn't have J4Js at ASA/CMR....We had the RJDC lawsuit which prevented it....

How come DAL didn't get jets4jobs?
 
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PCL_128 said:
Do you think you deserved more than a staple? If so, you have an ego problem beyond imagination.
Click to expand...

Do you not think that ALPA merger policy applies to a regional/mainline integration....If so...Why? Should a mainline pilot get a winfall at my expense?

All I'm looking for is to keep them out of my seat.....Not trying to get into theirs ahead of them.....
 
You still didn't answer the question. But that's not a surprise. :rolleyes:
 
PCL_128 said:
You still didn't answer the question. But that's not a surprise. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You haven't answered the question either....Do you not support ALPA merger policy?

Do I think a 6 month DAL FO should be able to bump a 25 year ASA or CMR Capt? NO! Do you think they should?
 
Of course I support ALPA Merger Policy. But the only reasonable application of ALPA Merger Policy to a merger between a regional and a mainline carrier would be a staple with fences.
 
I guess not being in the regional industry I don't understand what you guys are arguing about...but I do know that the regionals dont own the flying they do.....they just are leasing it.
 
pilotbrain said:
I guess not being in the regional industry I don't understand what you guys are arguing about...but I do know that the regionals dont own the flying they do.....they just are leasing it.
Click to expand...

Then you know more than Joey. And that's pretty sad, considering that he's been at the regionals for a very, very, very long time.
 
PCL_128 said:
Of course I support ALPA Merger Policy. But the only reasonable application of ALPA Merger Policy to a merger between a regional and a mainline carrier would be a staple with fences.
Click to expand...

The PID only asked that ALPA merger policy be used....The "DOH" myth was a DALPA fabrication...ALPA merger policy was all that was asked.....All I want is protection of my current job.....
 

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