Wow I only need 350 hours and 25k to fly an RJ?

[BushwickBill]

Check out what I got in my email box! Sweet! No more paying dues as an instrument instructor or running around golfers in the Caravan. Do I get to wear a cool hat? Can I wear a backpack? 19 bucks an hour would be a 50% pay cut from what I make as an instructor but hell this must be the opportunity of a lifetime. I mean its not like I didn't spend a lot of money on my CIME instructor ticket but wow for only 25k what a deal!

Dear BUSHWICK -


Are you pursuing a regional airline pilot job?

Regional Airlines need over 1000 pilots within the next 12 months.


ATP is introducing a new program called the Airline Transition Program,
tailored to pilots with a commercial certificate, 350+ total time, and
little multi-engine time, who want to take advantage of ATP's airline
alliances and multi-engine time building capabilities.

More on the Airline Alliances:
<http://www2.allatps.com/go.lasso?p=7&c=46154>


__AIRLINE TRANSITION PROGRAM__

* 60 Days / $24,995 / Financing Available

* Become eligible for reduced hiring minimums
under ATP's Airline Alliances with
ExpressJet, American Eagle, and PSA.
(Still in discussions with Pinnacle)

* Guaranteed interview with one or more of these
regional airlines upon successful completion.

* 100 Hours Multi-Engine PIC.

* 50 Hours Glass Cockpit Single-Engine PIC.

* Includes Regional Jet Standards Certificatoin Program.
(20 Hours CRJ-200 FTD + ground school)

* Includes Flight Management System (FMS) PC-based simulator software

* ATP Written Prep & Exam

* Includes all books, checklists, and training materials.


__PREREQUISITES__

* Total Time: 350 Hours

* Certificates: Commercial with SE, ME, and Instrument Ratings

* Education: Minimum of Associates Degree, prefer Bachelors Degree
from an aviation university.


__LOCATIONS & AVAILABILITY__

The Airline Transition Program will be offered at all 23 ATP locations
nationwide. Hotels and housing are included while on nationwide
cross-country flights and during the two-week Regional Jet training
at Jacksonville Beach, FL. Also, airline travel and hotel are included
for a preliminary interview at Jacksonville Beach, FL. Housing at the
domocile training center is not included.

Availability limited to ten starts per month. Four of October's starts
are already filled.


__SENIORITY IS EVERYTHING__

Regional Airlines need over 1000 pilots within the next 12 months.
Seniority is everything--get there first with ATP.

For more information about this new program, please contact me (James
Krzeminski) or Jim Koziarski at 877-ATP-JETS (877-287-5387).

We wish you success in achieving your career objectives.

Sincerely,
James

--
James Krzeminski
Director of Admissions
Airline Transport Professionals (ATP)
800-ALL-ATPS / 800-255-2877
Web: <http://www.allatps.com>
Email: <mailto:[email protected]>

 

[RJP]

While it doesn't state that you'll get HIRED after this wonderful training program, I'd like to sign up. That 50 hrs of SINGLE-ENGINE glass cockpit time would definitely spice up my resume (which has much too little single-engine time). The problem is that the $25K is more than I make in a year at my regional airline job. Anyone want to float me a 0% loan?

 

[Spinplate]

yawnnnnn

 

[mdanno808]

Doesn't Mesa already do this?

 

[kngarthur]

Check out what I got in my email box! Sweet! No more paying dues as an instrument instructor or running around golfers in the Caravan. Do I get to wear a cool hat? Can I wear a backpack? 19 bucks an hour would be a 50% pay cut from what I make as an instructor but hell this must be the opportunity of a lifetime. I mean its not like I didn't spend a lot of money on my CIME instructor ticket but wow for only 25k what a deal!

This is a scam! In fact, just look what happened to TAB Express.

 

[buckdanny]

Doesn't Mesa already do this?

For half the price

Buck

 

[Av8trxx]

Doesn't Mesa already do this?

Yes they do.

I know someone who is about to start IOE with <400TT. Only 2 or 3 of those in class with them were not were not PACE grads. Mesa must be making a killing off that program.

 

[Weasil]

I'm told that one of the newhires in training at PSA is from ATP and has around 350hrs TT.

 

[wheels1478]

ALL ATP is just starting this program. Word is, it is not very good. I have a few friends there. they say its a rip off. I got the same email. To be honest with you..EX jet minimums are 500/100...why pay 25k when you not going to get hired till you have 500/100 anyway? Go to the all atp website and read the letter of agreement with ex jet. ITs NOT WORTH THE 25k. just get your 500/100 and you will be golden

 

[The Truth]

Face it, boys and girls, this is what your "profession" has come to. Name a regional that doesn't have a bridge program which slashes published minimums? Mesa may be the only company-affiliated flight school which allows for reduced hiring times (or maybe not?...I don't know), yet they're NO different than UND, Purdue, ATP, Delta Connection, etc "guaranteeing" an interview at XXY regional with reduced total time (I'm in NO way defending these programs, by the way, merely implying that EVERY airline out there engages in these tactics).

Speaking of the low-timers versus the high-timers (or folks that get hired with the "published" minimums) I would actually be interested in seeing data on the wash-out rate between the two. Do the low-time bridge program grads fail out of training more often than the folks that have 1000+ hours? They all have to pass the same systems class, sim, and IOE, right?

Whatever the statistical results are between the two groups, it appears that this trend is, unfortunately, here to stay. Think about it, it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint for regionals to hire pilots with as little time as possible. Why? Because little Jimmy with <500 hours is much more prone to staying at XXY regional than Timmy with >2000 hours. By the time little Jimmy has enough time to apply elsewhere, he's on 2nd year pay, has moved up on the seniority list, and has a nice big kool-aid mustache about upgrading soon.

Less turnover = less training costs = more money for JO to buy more Harley's!

...makes me sick.

 

[sweptback]

Face it, boys and girls, this is what your "profession" has come to. Name a regional that doesn't have a bridge program which slashes published minimums? Mesa may be the only company-affiliated flight school which allows for reduced hiring times (or maybe not?...I don't know), yet they're NO different than UND, Purdue, ATP, Delta Connection, etc "guaranteeing" an interview at XXY regional with reduced total time (I'm in NO way defending these programs, by the way, merely implying that EVERY airline out there engages in these tactics).

I am not aware of an accredited university that offers a BS in aviation or something similar and guarantees an interview with a regional.

They may have bridge programs, but those are usually contingent on completing an internship program first, and even then I don't think you are guaranteed anything.

 

[Av8trxx]

Speaking of the low-timers versus the high-timers (or folks that get hired with the "published" minimums) I would actually be interested in seeing data on the wash-out rate between the two. Do the low-time bridge program grads fail out of training more often than the folks that have 1000+ hours? They all have to pass the same systems class, sim, and IOE, right?

Yes, that would be an interesting to know. I heard that of 2 or 3 others in the same group that meet normal mins, one washed out of the DHC-8 program. Then again I have read/heard over & over again how any 'monkey can be taught to fly an RJ' on these boards (and elsewhere) and that RJs are so much easier than turboprops.

It's sorta funny to me to hear how "easy" CRJ training is from a PACE grad. By that I mean if I had just paid all that cash to do a dry run ground school for 3 months and them got to do it all over again for real I should hope it would be easy!

 

[FR8mastr]

thousands of hours of experience does not necessarily make you a better stick, there obviously are pilots out there, that can manipulate the controls with the best of them with 1000 hours or so. However the judgement and "been their done that" experience that come with actually having been there done that are often overlooked anymore. "dude"

What happens when the 350 hour pilot becomes 23 and has 1500 hours? He will upgrade, possibly without ever having been in IMC without the autopilot.

I am not looking for the " I have 500 hours and I know all there is to know about aviation" argument, because I have over 10,000 hours and I still learn all the time. Its just fact.

 

[Bdfg1]

I am not aware of an accredited university that offers a BS in aviation or something similar and guarantees an interview with a regional.

They may have bridge programs, but those are usually contingent on completing an internship program first, and even then I don't think you are guaranteed anything.

Ahhh..nice product of a bridge program youself. Good cover. LOL

 

[McNugent]

I agree with sweptback, my school didn't have a "bridge program" but we did have preferred hiring with a couple airlines (Piedmont and Horizon) at reduced minimums. Almost all of which that interviewed had instructed for some amount of time. The airlines just know what kind of pilots certain schools produce, and know that for the most part they will get quality employees. Everyone has to start somewhere, why not go with an airline that will give you a chance with fewer hours?

 

[Spinplate]

Mesa Pilot Development students come onboard with 260 hours roughly. no CFI or anything. They are guarenteed an interview and thats it. I overheard one interview with a Mesa pilot development student and they were diggin pretty good. If they are prepared for the interview, than what the heck. They know the CRJ better than any street pilot that has no experience in it. SAD BUT TRUE! I had a couple of them in my class and they knew their stuff pretty damn good. Hope it carries over into flying the airplane safely. Good Luck!

 

[Superpilot92]

This is partially why the industry is going down the tubes. If the mins were the same as 135 you wouldnt have the influx of people that think it would be a cool job. I think i will try it out it sounds like fun. I have met so many people that dropped the 25k or mommy and daddy did because they thought it would be cool to where the uniform. The more pilot factories the more pilots and the more pilots the lower the pay can go and stay.

 

[gringo]

My sim partner at my last job was one of these 300 hour wonder kids.

He crashed on his checkride.

Twice.

And yes, in case you're wondering, he passed.

 

[sweptback]

Ahhh..nice product of a bridge program youself. Good cover. LOL

Nope. Although I went to a college not otherwise associated with aviation but that had a program and I most definitely was not guaranteed an interview. When I graduated several years ago there wasn't even a bunch of regionals interested in interviewing people from my school. Maybe I went to the wrong one.

 

[405]

I can't stand low time pilots

It would be really nice if Mommy and Daddy could pay for confidence. I'm sure I'm not the only dispatcher out here that gets sick of having to coddle some low time pilot that freaks out over some -TSRA in a forecast.

If you don't want to fly into weather, don't get into Part 121 operations.

 

[fastbird]

It reads like the original American Eagle program from 1991.

Pay us money, we give you some training...and you are on your own. Good Luck! not!

 

[The Truth]

Does anyone happen to know if Part 121 ever had time requirements similiar to Pt 135? If so, why were they dropped to the current level? (the current level basically being none)

I'm not sure what needs to be done to reverse this trend, but I have a suspicion that minimum times (comparable to 135) would be a big step. Personally, I feel that everyone should flight instruct at least ONE primary and instrument student, as well as have some single-pilot (ala freight) under their belts. At the minimum, a comfort with flying in adverse weather.

I think that every pilot ultimately needs to ask themselves whether or not they're capable of handing that aircraft in the event of the Captain becoming incapacitated. If not, there's a problem.

 

[McNugent]

Personally, I feel that everyone should flight instruct at least ONE primary and instrument student, as well as have some single-pilot (ala freight) under their belts. At the minimum, a comfort with flying in adverse weather.

Yeah, thats exactly what I need. The FAA regulating what I can do with my certs. and ratings even more. I'm not advocation going out and paying 25K for an airline job at only 250 hours, but there are ways around instructing. I happened to instruct, and learned a lot out of it, but to tell someone they HAVE to get their CFII and instruct at least one primary and instrument student is kinda out there.

You just have to realize that times have changed. Just because you may have had to "pay your dues" and fly crappy planes in crappy weather for crappy pay, doesn't mean thats the norm anymore. I do however have the utmost respect for those that did go through that. With CAPT, Direct Track, and ATP along with the PFT you are going to get the low timers whether you like it or not. That's just how it is now.

 

[plunger]

How are these people getting interviews? I have about 1020TT/300ME which is still pretty low, and a bachelors in aviation management and nobody will even look at me. How are these 500TT/20ME no degree people getting hired? sheesh...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Anyone can petition the FAA for NPRM.

Write your congressman. Start a petition.

Buy a page in the USA Today.

"Your cancelled checks require a pilot with over one-thousand hours of experience to fly them to the federal reserve.

An airline pilot may have as little as 250 hours of experience.

Why is a piece of paper more important than your own life?
Call your congressman and tell him to support proposition #1 - Raise FAR121 minimums to 2000 hrs."
​

We can all complain about it here on Flightinfo.com to no avail. Until the FAA gets pressure from the traveling public nothing will change.

Better have deep pockets though, because the ATA is certainly going to fight back.

 

[EMB Skillz]

Check out what I got in my email box! Sweet! No more paying dues as an instrument instructor or running around golfers in the Caravan. Do I get to wear a cool hat? Can I wear a backpack? 19 bucks an hour would be a 50% pay cut from what I make as an instructor but hell this must be the opportunity of a lifetime. I mean its not like I didn't spend a lot of money on my CIME instructor ticket but wow for only 25k what a deal!

Well, somebody has to fly the little RJ's when everybody gets moved up to the E170/190 Mainline aircraft.

 

[Quiet Flight]

A friend just sent me this email. Holy smoke! Is this for real?

On-Site Interviews with Pinnacle Airlines / Northwest Airlink

In just three weeks, Pinnacle Airlines (Northwest Airlink) will
interview a pool of ATP Instructors and Airline Transition Program
graduates on-site at ATP's headquarters in Jacksonville Beach, Florida.

Pinnacle will also interview a select number of pilots prior to their
enrollment in the Airline Transition Program for Conditional Offers of
Employment.

After successful completion of the interview, Pinnacle knows that
applicants will quickly gain a high level of proficiency and
standardization in ATP's 60-day Airline Transition Program. If you're
pursuing an airline job, have 350 hours total time, and would like to
know you're hired before investing $24,995, visit ATP's web site and
complete the application to be invited to 4 days of complimentary
interview and sim prep, and an interview with Pinnacle.

Check out the web site for details:

[URL="http://www2.atpflightschool.com/go.lasso?p=a&c=56870"]http://www2.atpflightschool.com/go.lasso?p=a&c=56870[/URL]

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Name a regional that doesn't have a bridge program which slashes published minimums?

I'll take SkyWest for 3 dollars Bob.

 

[CX880]

I don't favor these programs but maybe the industry has to realise that the level of training is so advanced now that 350 hour guys can fly the RJs. Also fo r those who have 1500+ hours and have not received offers, maybe you need some advanced training. Sim time is highley valued now for reg applicants. I talked to a former learjet sim instructor, he says that there is no difference between the sim and the real plane. If you can fly the sim well you can fly the real thing. Look at the military, they have similar hours when they start flying thos expensive planes. I would rather have somebody who has more sim time than 1000 hours of runs around the traffic pattern.

 

[JumpCaptain]

My sim partner at my last job was one of these 300 hour wonder kids.

He crashed on his checkride.

Twice.

And yes, in case you're wondering, he passed.

Get outta here!!! How is that possible?!

What company was that?