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Wouldn't this be a fabulous job...NOT

Mitsipilot

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CJ1 OWNER/ OPERATOR is looking for a full time second-in-commander safety pilot/ boat captains/ A&P. Will fly approximately 200 hours a year. Min time 4000 TT/ 2000 multi/ 500 Jet min. Must be typed in a CJ1/ 525s or have experience in Citation 550 series aircraft and have completed a 61.58 checkride within the past 12 months. Pilot must obtain a 525s type rating, from Flight Safety, before commencement of employment. Must be willing to sign a three-year training agreement for cost of type rating or fund the type rating personally and not training agreement required. Ft. Lauderdale based aircraft and boat; pilot must live in Ft. Lauderdale, and will have regular trips to Chicago and Caribbean destinations. Other duties include, operating 40' - 60' foot yacht and performing small maintenance items and upkeep on both pieces of equipment. boat captain and A&P not required, however, preferred. Excellent salary, full health benefits, and yearly bonus.
 

English

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Oh yeah, and must have 4000TT and a single pilot type to fly as second in command - WHATEVER!
 

skyboat

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Actually there are people out there that are probably qualified. I don't have the Citation time, but I do have the turbo- jet time, plus I hold a USCG Unlimited second officers license and 1600 ton Ocean Masters license.

Would I go buy a type rating for this, probably not. But then again I know people who are yacht captains (more in the 100 ft. + range) that make well upwards of $100,000/ year. If I wasn't gainfully employed, a couple years younger, who knows. This could be a fun job for a young single guy.
 

aero99

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Jimmy doesn't have a Citation, but he has an Albatross, Lear, Falcon, and a Caravan on floats. His co-pilot is his dog on the Albatross.

I haven't seen too many "young" boat captains operating 100+ft yachts. Most of the Captains I have met over the years that work on large boats are heavy drinkers and really pissed off about something in their life. I have met a few that were younger and professional, but that profession has its share of questionable participants.

If this guy had any sense, or really had any money, he would just hire a Jet Captain, and hire a Boat captain. Sounds like his EGO is in the ad and not reality.
 

jjbiv

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Totally unrelated to this board, but can anyone explain how ship's captains are licensed? We all know how the FAA does there thing, but I don't have the foggiest idea how the Coast Guard or whomever does theirs. What's a typical career progression for one of these individuals? Thanks for indulging my curiosity!

joe
 

aero99

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There are a few different types of licences for USCG Boat Masters. Funny thing is, they actually have schools you can go to much like airline training. It is not as big, or as expensive, but same system for those interested in that career.

I don't remember them all, but looked into it about 8 years ago when I got out of the Navy. There is a 6-pack license( funny name for a boat license) that is the basic and lets you operate a certain size vessel for commercial puposes ( again, like the airline regs). Then there are tonnage license that allows for heavy vessles such as skyboat has.

Many tug and harbor masters come from the Navy as they are trained in this type of activity for many years.

It isn't as regulated as being a pilot is though....I know and have met many captains of 100ft. + boats that did it just because they could. That might have changed over the years, but unless you are driving tankers or cargo do the Feds really watch who is driving what out there. Then again, you are only going 15 kts, not 415 kts.

I have piloted boats from canoes to an 550 ft missle crusier (of course I wasn't Captian on the Cruiser!) and everything in between from sail to power to race. Never had or needed a license. Just learned over the years.
 

skyboat

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For those of you who are interested, as it appears some are, I'll try to explain the Coast Guard licensing system as I spent about nine years in the Merchant Marine before I became a professional pilot.

It is actually very similar to the FAA way of certifying pilots except that mariners time is measured in days, not hours. To qualify for a license, an individual must have a certain amount of seatime and then pass a written exam. How an individual gets this is varied. An individual can start working as a deckhand (on yachts, etc) or start working as an Ordinary Seaman on commercial/merchant vessels. Or you can go to a Maritime Academy, which is the route I took. This would be very similar to Embry Riddle. You graduate with a four year degree and the ability to sit for your third mates examination. I will say, though, that the cost of the education is much more reasonable, and often times free of charge thanks to Uncle Sam. After you graduate you are able to go to work on any size ship on any ocean of the world in a third officers capacity. Or you can also sail in an unlicensed capacity, sort of like being enlisted in the Navy. When I graduated, jobs were scarce so I went to work on ocean-going tugboats as a mate. This is also a licensed position but since tugs are much smaller than deep- sea ships, you do not need an unlimited tonnage license. After I did that for a couple years, I went to work on a ship which lasted for about three years. To upgrade your license, it is simply a matter of meeting the seatime requirements and then passing the required examination.

The lifestyle between mariners and pilots is very similar but with some distinct differences. As a merchant seaman, you can expect to be gone sometimes for three or four months, not days. When you are done, though, you can have three or four months off. That is how I started flying for recreation. I never thought it would become an occupation. Before I knew it, I had a commercial pilots license and I wondered what I could do with that . Before I knew it I was working for Comair.

As for yachts, it is correct that they do not require a license as they are not a commercial vessel. Most insurance companies require it though, and many owners put their boats on the charter market when they are not using them. What kind of license that you need varies, and when you add in the factor that many yachts are registered in Bermuda and other offshore tax havens, it becomes quite diverse as many countries have different licensing systems. Many countries will recognize a U.S. license, many will not.

Naval surface warfare officers aboard naval ships do not require a license. It is just like military pilots do not need an FAA license to fly military aircraft. If they leave the military and want to pursue a career in the merchant marine , then some of their seatime will count for a license. For some reason, you don't see a lot of ex- naval officers going to sea after they get out like you see in the airlines. There is a much different culture between the navy and merchant marine that does not blend well. As an officer in the naval reserve, I can say that it can be quite difficult at times. I will say, though, that the U.S. Merchant Marine was around long before the U.S. Navy. In fact, the first naval ships were merchant ships fitted out with guns and manned by merchant seaman. Also, during WW II, a higher percentage of merchant seaman lost their lives than any other branch of the service, including the Marine Corps. To top it all off, many of these people had been rejected by the military for various reasons. Then to make matters worse, WW II merchant seaman were not granted Veteran status till over forty years after the war ended.

O.K, I seriously diverged here, sorry. Hope this answers some questions. As for the comment about ships only going 15 knots, remember that some tankers are over 1,000 ft long and draw over 70 ft of water. There cargo capacity can be upwards of 400,000 tons! That is a lot of mass to be going 15 knots through the water. Look at the Exxon Valdez and see what kind of damage that did when it made a navigational boo boo. Like flying, navigating a ship that size takes a great deal of skill and experience.
 

aero99

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Sky quote:
"O.K, I seriously diverged here, sorry. Hope this answers some questions. As for the comment about ships only going 15 knots, remember that some tankers are over 1,000 ft long and draw over 70 ft of water. There cargo capacity can be upwards of 400,000 tons! That is a lot of mass to be going 15 knots through the water. Look at the Exxon Valdez and see what kind of damage that did when it made a navigational boo boo. Like flying, navigating a ship that size takes a great deal of skill and experience."

Didn't mean to offend you. But, flying a plane is a much more envolved task than shooting any 1000ft boat across the ocean. Once you get into port it is a different story, and that is why the Captains rely on Tug and Port Masters to dock them.

Valdez happend over poor communication and laziness. Do that in an aircraft and you are dead.

Pilotage in any boat or vessel takes skill none the less.
 

aero99

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I don't know what cruise ships require as a far as prior experience goes, but would think you would need to a license to get in the pilot house. Not a place for just anyone to be in. You would have a specific job function or watch that you rotate around. Could be the helmsman (driver) lee-helmsman (throttles) nav assistant, or lookout which are mostly grunt work. The officers would be Captian, Nav, Officer on Deck etc....

You could start working for a cruise ship as a below deck hand, and work up to the pilothouse I am sure.

I always counted years, but skybolt would know better if commerical boating counts days. Makes sense.

Bowman is a fun position. I owned and raced a Catalina 30 and would have a buddy play Captain and steer sometimes so I could play up front. There is nothing quite like sailing, especially when racing. Lake Michigan is a great sailing enviornment, just a short season.

If life was perfect, I would sail one day and fly the next.
Ok, I'm gonna go buy a lottery ticket now....
 

skyboat

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"Also, do days on the water in non-commercial boating count? I race sailboats on Lake Michigan in a league (I'm the bowman.... the spinnaker is my job!). Would they take that into account? (I'm thinking no, but I figure I'd ask)"

Yes and no. If you wanted to work on the bridge of a Carnival ship, then no.

However, someone mentioned earlier about a "6 pack" license. This is actually what we call a 6 pax license. This would enable you to work on an unregistered vessel up to 100 tons with up to 6 paying passengers onboard. Over 6 passengers than the vessel must be registered and you would have to have at least a 100 ton license. Working on a boat on Lake Michigan even as a bowman in a summer racing series would count as seatime towards a 6 pack license. I believe, but don't quote me, that you could probably convince the Coast Guard to give you credit towards a 100 ton license as well which is basically the next step up from a 6 pack.


To get the 6 pack, you would need 365 days of seatime and take a written test as well as a CPR card. Years ago on recreational boats a day of seatime was counted when you were underway for 4 or more hours. I'm not sure if that is still the standard.

Aero99, no offense taken. Being both an airline pilot and merchant seaman, I can attest that both occupations require high degrees of skill and time to become "seasoned" in the occupation. That is all I was trying to say but I believe you already know that.
 

aero99

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Skybolt quote:
"However, someone mentioned earlier about a "6 pack" license. This is actually what we call a 6 pax license. This would enable you to work on an unregistered vessel up to 100 tons with up to 6 paying passengers onboard. Over 6 passengers than the vessel must be registered and you would have to have at least a 100 ton license. Working on a boat on Lake Michigan even as a bowman in a summer racing series would count as seatime towards a 6 pack license. I believe, but don't quote me, that you could probably convince the Coast Guard to give you credit towards a 100 ton license as well which is basically the next step up from a 6 pack. "

I concur. This is what I had looked into years back, when I had the bright idea of becoming a charter captain in the Carribean. Sobered up, realized I wasn't Jimmy Buffet and decided against it. I am pretty sure for the 6pax, if you passed a written, and demonstrated Navigational ability along with seamanship and regulations, you could obtain the 6 pax pretty easy.
 

skyboat

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"I don't know what cruise ships require as a far as prior experience goes, but would think you would need to a license to get in the pilot house. Not a place for just anyone to be in. You would have a specific job function or watch that you rotate around. Could be the helmsman (driver) lee-helmsman (throttles) nav assistant, or lookout which are mostly grunt work. The officers would be Captian, Nav, Officer on Deck etc.... "

Ah, the diferences between the merchant service and the navy that I was talking about earlier. As a merchant guy, I was always amazed by how many people were on the bridge of a naval ship- helmsman, lookout, bearing takers,navigator, OOD, JOOD, signalmen, someone to watch the helsman, etc, etc. It always seemed like people were tripping over each other. Mercahnt ships generally have a watch officer (mate), and maybe a helmsman (that seems to be only when you're going into port nowadays-I agree probably not the safest practice). But when you look at the mission of combatant ships, they man their bridges assuming that there may be up to 50% casualties in combat so they need to have more people around. But us merchant guys still like to make fun of 'em anyway.....
 

aero99

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QUOTE "Ah, the diferences between the merchant service and the navy that I was talking about earlier. As a merchant guy, I was always amazed by how many people were on the bridge of a naval ship- helmsman, lookout, bearing takers,navigator, OOD, JOOD, signalmen, someone to watch the helsman, etc, etc. It always seemed like people were tripping over each other. Mercahnt ships generally have a watch officer (mate), and maybe a helmsman (that seems to be only when you're going into port nowadays-I agree probably not the safest practice). But when you look at the mission of combatant ships, they man their bridges assuming that there may be up to 50% casualties in combat so they need to have more people around. But us merchant guys still like to make fun of 'em anyway....."

Look out now........we usually had all those people on hand when you brought us fuel, but in normal ops, just 2 officers and a few grunts like myself.:)
 

Buschpilot

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I come from a family of recreational boaters, and one day my dad asked me how a First Mate ranks on a boat, is it like a First Officer on a plane?

My old man is kinda like the dad from the show Titus, so I had to make up a quick unintelligible answer that would prove to confuse him into thinking he received new knowledge (which of course he didn't).

Question 1:

Is there such a thing as a First Mate (I believe he was asking about the cruise liner world)

Question 2:

Where is the First Mate in the food chain?

Take care all.

B
 

aero99

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My First Mate is now my Ex-wife.

I think that is tanker or cruise ship lingo. Didn't have any first mates, wooden legs or Parrots in the Navy.

We did have a Gecco in the engine room for about 3 months after a Pearl Harbor trip. When he died, we did a full dress sea burial, with a coffin, and made a slide to push him over.

You get bored after a few months ok.....
 

skywav8r

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"Jimmy doesn't have a Citation, but he has an Albatross, Lear, Falcon, and a Caravan on floats. His co-pilot is his dog on the Albatross"


He used to have one, back in the mid 90's I fueled up his citation when he flew in for a concert. I believe it was a 550, not sure though. I wasn't all that airplane savvy back then. It had a parrot painted on the tail. He was in and out for a couple of days while playing at the gorge at george in washington state. His pilot had the best uniform, khaki shorts, a t-shirt, and a baseball cap. Corona was sponsering the tour so there was plenty to go around the hangar.
:cool:
 

skyboat

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Bushpilot asked:

Question 1:

Is there such a thing as a First Mate (I believe he was asking about the cruise liner world)

Question 2:

Where is the First Mate in the food chain?


In the Merchant service, the first mate is generally called the Chief Mate (or Chief Officer). The Chief Mate is in charge of the deck department. There is also the Chief Engineer which is the head of the engine department and the Chief Steward which is in charge of the stewards department. Each of these three Chiefs report to the Captain, or Master. The Captain always comes from the deck department so that kind of shafts the Engineers and Stewards because they will never be a Captain. That being said, I would hate to work on a ship where the Captain went down to the engine room and started telling people what to do. Even though he is in command of the ship, it is just not done. Even though the Chief Mate is in charge of the deck department, the Captain will probably have more day to day contact with him and the operation of the department where he leaves the engine room and machinary to the whims of the Chief Engineer. So that being said, the Chief Engineer probably has a little more pull than the Cheif Mate. If the Captain were to ever become incapacitated (hey there is no age 60 rule, I've seen 80 year old Captains before) than the Chief Mate would take command.

Clear as mud?
 

aero99

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Ah, the diferences between the Navy and the Mechants!

That type of commanding is why the Valdez hit dirt. It is possible to command respect without demanding respect. All my captains went into every space and used this time to train the crew. Communication is key to safety just as in an aircraft. I hope that you don't use this same mentallity in the cockpit if and when you are PIC. Captians of any vessel hold the same responsibility as a PIC. Responsibility to the safety of your crew and passengers. If the Captain doesn't go into the engine room, I don't want to be onboard.

I think you would agree with that as a pilot.
 
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