Would you vote for Bush if..........

[vc10]

VC10, I agree we need a competent President however, I speculate you supported Clinton and will support Kerry (could be wrong on both though). But if you did, isn't that an oxymoron?

Kerry might not be any better, but we know one thing for sure: the current guy sucks.

Kerry is certainly of higher character. He didn't hide behind his daddy during Vietnam. He asked to go. Say anything you like, that took guts, proving that not all rich kids are spoiled brats (and W was a spoiled brat/alcoholic/druggie). Kerry didn't need Jesus's help to do the right thing.

Bush thinks Christ wants him to be president, which is just one step below Osama thinking that Allah wants him to blow up airliners. Anyone who thinks they have God's ear is a megalomaniac.

 

[hoya saxa]

He didn't hide behind his daddy during Vietnam.

So, who are you hiding behind during the war against terror to stay home and make fun of someone's spelling of morale? Funny how when the Dems manage to find a candidate who's actually been near a combat zone they're suddenly so selectively praising of military service. Hey VC10, what are you doing to thank the Americans putting their lives on the line for idiots like you? Nothing.... BTW, bashing them and their mission while endorsing Kerry 'cause you think he'll "bring them home" doesn't count. Get a clue dude.

 

[freighterfreek]

easy maverick, (i think your helmet may be on too tight)

fact: Kerry went to Vietnam and Bush didn't
fact: Kerry supports labor and Bush doesn't
fact: Airline pilots (what this forum is all about) are labor


you can't argue the facts. it sucks when it doesn't fit your story, huh.

anyway, it is possible to support the troops and question the president -- that's what makes this country great.

 

[Papa3Charlie]

VC10, It seems that you picked out parts of my post to respond to and conveniently left many untouched.


In the two years since terrorists attacked US!
President Bush has ...
liberated! two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

Care to comment....

Also, in the future, as a classic rule of effective debating, if you want someone to honestly listen to your point of view, it is important not to start off your rebuttal with personal insults. This immediately puts your reader on the defensive toward your point of view. Most people will readily accept a valid counter argument if presented in the right way. If you are sincerely interested in helping people to see things through eyes, I recommend you work on your presentation and communication abilities and refrain from personal insults. All this does is tarnish the image of those you are intending to defend.

Here is more food for thought and another opportunity to express yourself without personal insults.

CAN YOU NAME THIS COUNTRY?

709,000 REGULAR (ACTIVE DUTY) PERSONNEL.
293,000 RESERVE TROOPS.
EIGHT STANDING ARMY DIVISIONS.
20 AIR FORCE AND NAVY AIR WINGS WITH 2,000 COMBAT AIRCRAFT.
232 STRATEGIC BOMBERS.
19 STRATEGIC BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINES WITH 3,114
NUCLEAR WARHEADS ON 232 MISSILES.
500 ICBMs WITH 1,950 WARHEADS.
FOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND 121 SURFACE COMBAT SHIPS AND
SUBMARINES PLUS ALL THE SUPPORT BASES, SHIPYARDS, AND LOGISTICAL
ASSETS NEEDED TO SUSTAIN SUCH A NAVAL FORCE.

IS THIS COUNTRY:

RUSSIA?

NO

CHINA?

NO

GREAT BRITAIN?

NO

FRANCE?

WRONG AGAIN

MUST BE THE USA?

STILL WRONG (Sort of.)

GIVE UP?

THESE ARE THE AMERICAN MILITARY FORCES THAT WERE ELIMINATED DURING THE ADMINISTRATION OF BILL CLINTON AND AL GORE. AND THEIR ELIMINATION WAS SUPPORTED 100% BY JOHN KERRY! (THESE HE DID VOTE ON!)

 

[Laughing_Jakal]

W'04

Voting for Bush without hesitation. Some things are more important than self-interest and personal gain. 'nuff said.

--Jakal

 

[potrack]

What about Clinton?

Funny how everyone is quick to jump on the band wagon and point fingers at the CIA, Bush, and the military when they say "We knew about terrorists before 9/11 but did nothing..."

Surprised nobody has pointed the finger at the Clinton administration. They knew all about Osama back in the mid 90's and had several times to 'take him out' but just didn't care.

Read "Dereliction of Duty" by Patterson. Insider view of how Clinton ran his game in the Whitehouse.

A lot of friends of mine in the military had to take it in the shorts because of all of the cutbacks.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
Instead of reading other people's theorys, how 'bout doing one own research/study? I do not believe the partisan p00p spewed by pundits on both sides of the fence. The bottom line you have to ask yourself, are you better off than you were 5years ago? Me? Nope, I am wedded to an industry that is in a failure mode of epic magnitude. When the CEO's get finished with mainline, we are next and it ain't gonna be pretty, at least the mainline guys had a little time to put somethig away, did you save enough to take a 25% paycut?
Get onboard with the reality, airlines do not want longterm employees, longivity is too expensive. All you wannabees that think you hit the jackpot because you got a foot in the door, watch out 4-5 years at Jetblue or Southwest you will feel the same pinch as the mainline guys are feeling now.
LLC's will rule the airline environment and will start and fail with alarming regularity, thus keeping the employee population young in senority, and therefore costs. I hope I am wrong for all of our sakes, but I don't think so.
Counterpoint, argument, someone tell me it aint so!
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

P.S.
Where in the history of this country is dissent unloyal/unpatriotic? Every person has the moral and civic duty to question the operations of it's elected officials, it's called oversight

I would never in any way blame the brave men and women who wear our country's uniforms. These people are following orders that our elected officals issued to them. These would include Military, Police and Firefighters.
My hat is off to these brave people!
PBR

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

LLC's will rule the airline environment and will start and fail with alarming regularity, thus keeping the employee population young in senority, and therefore costs. I hope I am wrong for all of our sakes, but I don't think so.
Counterpoint, argument, someone tell me it aint so!
PBR

I think your concerns are legit. However, how will supporting Kerry "help"? Don't think either party is really concerned with your plight. Just trying to be realistic. To some, deregulation was the beginning of the end. It was Ted Kennedy who pimped off of deregulation with the support of fellow Dems. I think (could be wrong) Lorenzo was buddies with Kennedy during that time.

I don't trust the majority of politicians. Think it's a den of thieves. IF I vote, will probably go with Bush. Not because I support him, but Kerry and Sueme Edwards seem to be worse pimps/politicians. My concern with Bush is during his watch under the guise of Homeland Security the guberment now has access to medical and financial records without a warrant and he's soft on allowing "illegals" from the south. Problem is the Dems could/would be worse.

Politically speaking, sometimes I feel like we're the duped fans watching a professional wrestling match that is nothing more than a staged event. Now I hope I am wrong!

 

[vc10]

So, who are you hiding behind during the war against terror to stay home and make fun of someone's spelling of morale? Funny how when the Dems manage to find a candidate who's actually been near a combat zone they're suddenly so selectively praising of military service. Hey VC10, what are you doing to thank the Americans putting their lives on the line for idiots like you? Nothing.... BTW, bashing them and their mission while endorsing Kerry 'cause you think he'll "bring them home" doesn't count. Get a clue dude.

Yo, my brother's in the military. Career military---did combat duty in the Gulf War. Don't do your more-patriotic-than-thou thing on me. You want to apologize?

I bash Bush bigtime, because he's used and abused the US military.

The troops--they've done their constitutional duty and followed the orders of our Moron in Chief. I support them all the more for it. They have a thankless, and likely impossible task, but they're sucking it up and doing the best they can. They're paying for Bush's mistakes every day.

 

[vc10]

Funny how everyone is quick to jump on the band wagon and point fingers at the CIA, Bush, and the military when they say "We knew about terrorists before 9/11 but did nothing..."

Surprised nobody has pointed the finger at the Clinton administration. They knew all about Osama back in the mid 90's and had several times to 'take him out' but just didn't care.

Read "Dereliction of Duty" by Patterson. Insider view of how Clinton ran his game in the Whitehouse.

A lot of friends of mine in the military had to take it in the shorts because of all of the cutbacks.

They did care. They did, once, try to take him out. The other times it was judged that the risks outweighed the chance of success.

 

[BigMotorToter]

I blame Bush for the instability in the world, due to his poorly planned imperialistic excursions.

I blame Osama. How soon we forget.

 

[vc10]

OK, so you concede that everything of your original other than the small paragraph at the top below has been proven incorrect? Good to know.

Let's see, liberated two countries. Well, actually, did you know that the Taliban is back in control of large swaths of Afghanistan? Do you know why? Because we left that job unfinished so we could turn our attention to Iraq---only Bush really understands why. Iraq, of course, may be "liberated", but it's a terrorist breeding ground too. We royally screwed that up by not having remotely enough people to hold that country. Consequently it's been looted of just about anything that's not nailed down. Seriously, there are successive pictures of factories and so forth showing them being systematically picked apart. Iraq has gone very far backward in development since we got there. It's being stolen back into the stone age. And because life really sucks there, sucks much worse in some ways than when Saddam was in control, people don't like us. It didn't have to be that way, it was just sheer stupidity on the part of our adminstration.

As to the thing about the ICBMs, etc, that would be relevant if we were fighting the Soviet Union during the Cold War. But dude, we _won_ that fight and the Russian military is a pale shadow of what it used to be. It would be stupid to spend $billions on stuff we don't need anymore. We need that money to give big tax breaks to people who make multiples of what you (and I) do. Oh, I'm sorry, I mean we need that money to spend on the war against terrorism. And of course John Kerry supported changing the focus of spending. You'd have to be a very stupid person not to.

I mean seriously, sorry to be so derisive and everything, but put up a halfway decent argument and then I'll be more likely to treat you with respect. Your arguments are seriously pathetic. The only thing sadder than your arguments is the fact that you're clearly parroting something that someone else gave you. So there are, unfortunately, a lot of seriously ill-informed people out there. Someone is churning out this garbage and lots of people think it's the truth.

VC10, It seems that you picked out parts of my post to respond to and conveniently left many untouched.


In the two years since terrorists attacked US!
President Bush has ...
liberated! two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

Care to comment....

Also, in the future, as a classic rule of effective debating, if you want someone to honestly listen to your point of view, it is important not to start off your rebuttal with personal insults. This immediately puts your reader on the defensive toward your point of view. Most people will readily accept a valid counter argument if presented in the right way. If you are sincerely interested in helping people to see things through eyes, I recommend you work on your presentation and communication abilities and refrain from personal insults. All this does is tarnish the image of those you are intending to defend.

Here is more food for thought and another opportunity to express yourself without personal insults.http://forums.flightinfo.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

CAN YOU NAME THIS COUNTRY? http://forums.flightinfo.com/images/icons/icon5.gif

709,000 REGULAR (ACTIVE DUTY) PERSONNEL.
293,000 RESERVE TROOPS.
EIGHT STANDING ARMY DIVISIONS.
20 AIR FORCE AND NAVY AIR WINGS WITH 2,000 COMBAT AIRCRAFT.
232 STRATEGIC BOMBERS.
19 STRATEGIC BALLISTIC MISSILE SUBMARINES WITH 3,114
NUCLEAR WARHEADS ON 232 MISSILES.
500 ICBMs WITH 1,950 WARHEADS.
FOUR AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND 121 SURFACE COMBAT SHIPS AND
SUBMARINES PLUS ALL THE SUPPORT BASES, SHIPYARDS, AND LOGISTICAL
ASSETS NEEDED TO SUSTAIN SUCH A NAVAL FORCE.

IS THIS COUNTRY:

RUSSIA?

NO

CHINA?

NO

GREAT BRITAIN?

NO

FRANCE?

WRONG AGAIN

MUST BE THE USA?

STILL WRONG (Sort of.)

GIVE UP?

THESE ARE THE AMERICAN MILITARY FORCES THAT WERE ELIMINATED DURING THE ADMINISTRATION OF BILL CLINTON AND AL GORE. AND THEIR ELIMINATION WAS SUPPORTED 100% BY JOHN KERRY! (THESE HE DID VOTE ON!)

 

[AvroJockey]

I feel so much safer with bush at the helm.

Lets see - attack Iraq, a non-terror nation and create a breading ground for terrorists.

Spend Billions and increase our defecit to 600 billion dollars so we can help a bunch of crazys live in democracy when they aren't ready for it.

Ruin our international credibility.

Bush wants cabotage so foreign subsidied airlines can come over here and take our flying.

Almost up to 1000 of our troops killed why?????????

Bush is an idiot!!!!!! Bush is arrogant!!!!!!!! Bush can't think for himself!!!!!!! he only believes in big business and thinks they have the answers to everything.

After 9-11 we were a unified nation and the rest of the world was completely with us and supported us. Now the nation is divided and the rest of the world thinks we are a bunch of go it alone cowboys. Working with others is the grease that makes the world go round.

VOTE KERRY!!!!!!!

There’s an underlying military strategy to attacking Iraq, in the global war on terror. Iraq is central to the Middle East, and its importance to a larger cause is even greater than Afghanistan. Many in history have used this strategy successfully. Time will reveal the importance of turning Iraq into a democracy, just as it did with Russia. Most of your argument is based upon information delved out by the media. It’s not just ignorant to base your opinions on what is said in the news, but stupid. As a professional aviator, you should know this.

 

[hoya saxa]

Yo, my brother's in the military. Career military---did combat duty in the Gulf War. Don't do your more-patriotic-than-thou thing on me. You want to apologize?

I bash Bush bigtime, because he's used and abused the US military.

The troops--they've done their constitutional duty and followed the orders of our Moron in Chief. I support them all the more for it. They have a thankless, and likely impossible task, but they're sucking it up and doing the best they can. They're paying for Bush's mistakes every day.

I applaud your BROTHER'S service and thank him for his dedication to his country, but it buys you no credit or credibility. It's got nothing to do with patriotism. A pot-smoking hippie can be just as big a patriot as a devil-dog Marine, but he's got nothing insightful to offer about the state of morale in the military. NEWS FLASH: We've been working our @sses off, but we don't feel "used and abused" because we believe in the rightness of the cause. I know that's hard to understand and doesn't help your attempt to undermine Bush on this front but it's a simple fact. Whether he pronounces "nuclear" correctly or can man-hug like Kerry-Edwards is simply not germane. Bush has provided tremendous clarity in his leadership in the last 3 years and the military loves him for it. I sure appreciate having people like you pretending to look our for us ig-nint military pogues, but I can assure you we have quite enough perspective. We don't automatically worship anyone with the title of Commander in Chief. Clinton was LOATHED by the same military he admitted to loathing himself. Bush is loved. Why? Because he GETS us and we get that he's doing his level best to employ us in the best fashion he knows to get a difficult job done. I'm truly sorry that you can't reconcile that FACT with your political views. You'll vote for Kerry no matter what I type, but your attempt to insinuate some empathy for military folks to further your cause is just lame.

 

[wil]

Zonker- Guess you didn't mind all the Clinton military deployments. Don't worry you aren't the first liberal confused with facts!

I vote for the party that says, " U.S. first and Fu*k France" Cheers. Wil

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

If he agreed to change the retirement age to age 65 in order to help those pilots who have, or will soon, lose their retirements?

I'm going on a personal trip, so I'll check when Iget back, but I've heard from a few die hard dems who would vote for President Bush if he changes the retirement age to 63 or 65.

What about you?

Calvin

No, no, heII no, and anyone who would should be ashamed of themsleves for being so self-centered.

 

[Donald]

I don't understand how some people can use the war in Iraq as criticism against Bush. Didn't Kerry help authorize it. Obviously he felt Saddam needed to go too. Should we have waited longer like we did in WWII. OK, so we haven't actually found WMD. We have found traces, and manufacturing facilities, not to mention the FACT that he has used them on the Kurds. That asside, he was a brutal dictator who wanted to conquer. The war has cost a lot of money, no argument there right, but prior to the war, containing him was costing us too. Not just in money, but in morale as well. Putting Saddam out of his misery gaves us all a morale boost. Hindsight sure makes criticism easy. Would Kerry have made all the right decisions.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

W can too, but it's hard to make everyone happy when you're not a liar.

Are you actually suggesting that W. is an honest man??

 

[miles otoole]

Are you actually suggesting that W. is an honest man??

Are you suggesting that YOU are honest?