Would you own a Long EZ/Vari EZ?

[SteveR]

In a few months I'm thinking about buying a plane just for fun. I've been thinking about an Ercoupe, and a few older taildraggers (like a Taylorcraft or Stinson). I've also been thinking about getting a Long EZ or Vari EZ. There is a group of local owners that I have been hanging out with some, and those planes are AWESOME. The speed and range are great compared to the other planes I've been looking at, and they are just rediculously fun to fly. The seating position is great, very relaxed, with a stick on the right side. Very comfortable, and VERY fun to fly. Great visibility, etc., etc., I could go on for a long time. The one complaint I have is that they have little room for baggage. Not really a big deal, 95% of my flying would be just for fun, not really traveling on longer trips. Another thing I really like is the cost. I'm not an A & P, but I could do most of the work myself. One of the local owners is an A & P and will help with or oversee the work you are doing, and then sign it off. I'm an Electrical Engineer, and I have done a fair amount of "hands-on" work, and I'm confident I could decide what repairs/modifications I am and am not capable of doing safely. Basically that means the cost to fly will be LOW.

The only thing stopping me right now is that I'm not sure how safe they are. I'm going to be carying friends and family, and they are taking my word that I am not going to kill them. I want to be able to tell them that and be comfortable with it. I've read every NTSB report on these aircraft. Pilot error is still the #1 cause, similar to all GA aircraft. However there are other quirks that will kill you. Probably the most popular way to get yourself in trouble is to not secure the fuel caps properly. Get in the air, the cap comes off and goes through the prop. Now you're a glider (another nice thing, they are so slick the glide ratio is around 20:1 I believe). Put chains on the caps and that will never happen. Then there are the really scary accidents, like the canards coming off. Then you are a bomb, and you are just along for the (short) ride.

John Denver died in a Long EZ, although it was entirely his fault.

Any thoughts? Opinions? Safe or not? I know how many crashes there have been, but since it is nearly impossible to guage the number of hours flown, it is really difficult to know how much more dangerous these planes are (statistically) than GA aircraft.

 

[88_MALIBU]

My experience with buying aircraft is limited. But I notice the guys with homebuilts seem to lose alot of money in their sale because not too many want to fly an airplane someone else built. I own an Aircoupe (68 mooney with double tail!) and love it. You will be hard pressed to lose on one of these, plus there are lots of parts-and chicks love flying with the canopy down in the summer The coupes have great visibility as well

Downside is its ALOT slower than Long EZ

 

[flywithastick]

The EZ's probably won't be as easy to inspect for integrity as a metal plane - amateur built or factory built. That said, you should find people who know plastic airplanes. www.matronics.com may have an EZ email list you could check into.

EZ's aren't much good for acro, if this is a consideration. Just good, fast, efficient A to B planes, IMO.

On the plus side (to some). You can do your own maintenance with an EZ. will have to get an A&P to do the annual (12 mo condition inspection) though. Saves a lot of money in many cases.

88_MALIBU
My experience with buying aircraft is limited. But I notice the guys with homebuilts seem to lose alot of money in their sale because not too many want to fly an airplane someone else built.

It all depends on the model and what's popular at the time. 3000+ RV's flying and they're still hot. Harmon and F-1 Rockets are red hot... one could make some good money building and selling these. Someone wanting a production plane (and not wanting a plane built in a garage), probably won't even consider an experimental, thus not being a factor in the going price.

As for holding value, all I really know is the metal kits. They should hold their value pretty well. Maybe not quite as well as a production plane, but nothing near as bad as a new boat or car.

Overall, the ~25,000 amateur built experimentals have an improving safety record near comparable with production planes. They fall short a few percentage points in the early flight test phases though. But the EZ's have pretty good handling based on everything I've heard. You won't find very many more efficient - that fly! Last - all 300+ mph top fuel dragsters (I know of) are homebuilts.

my 2¢ good luck

 

[SteveR]

Malibu, the Aircoupe is a later version of the Ercoupe. It became the Aircoupe when Alon bought the certificate, and later became the Mooney M-10 when Mooney bought the certificate. Cool planes. If I don't have an EZ I'll almost definately have an Ercoupe.

The EZ's probably won't be as easy to inspect for integrity as a metal plane - amateur built or factory built.

Yep...it is almost impossble to inspect the glass once it has been painted. I've been thinking about buying a Vari EZ from one of the local guys I've been hanging out with. It has over 700hrs, so I'm pretty confident in the structure. Basically all you can do is talk to anyone who might know the plane or the builder, and hopefully even talk to the builder. See if he knows what he is doing.

The owner of one of the planes I'm considering is going to fix up the plane before he sells it. He'll strip it down and paint it, it already has an autopilot installed, CD player, and he is going to go through some of the elctronics. He is probably going to sell it for $18-$20K. That is CHEAP for a 155 knot airplane that has just been painted etc. The only thing I don't like is that it has an O-200 that is 75% of the way to TBO, and he is going to be asking near top dollar for the plane.

 

[avbug]

Yep...it is almost impossble to inspect the glass once it has been painted.

Who told you that?

 

[flywithastick]

Who told you that?

might not have as much to do with paint over the surfaces, but a lot of closed FRP joints or bonds are not as easy to inspect without ultrasonic equipment. even then, there are lots of variables that are hard to pin down without destructive testing (drilling holes, cutting out sections) - proper mix of resin, proper distribution in the reinforcement, proper cure...

I know of one instance - not on an airplane - where a guy thought you could use epoxy resin by spreading part A on one piece and part B on the other, then clamping them together. Heck of a mess to clean up and rebond.

 

[88_MALIBU]

I looked into the Ercoupe, but didnt like the idea of not having rudders. If one had the aftermarket kit installed you could handle pretty good crosswinds. We get some nasty ones in January up here so the later model was a little more desirable for me. My bird is one of a few that is in fact a Mooney, with the original tail, not the mooney tail. Also designated A1A.

 

[CFI'er]

I would pick a Velocity over the Ez's because of the size and comfort. After looking at the new RV-10, I just might change my mind and go for an aluminum rather than composite kit aircraft.

 

[sstearns2]

.....

Hello,

I wouldn't get a vari-eze. The long-eze is a much better airplane for not much more money. I've never heard of a long-eze having a structural failure and there have been some that were definitely amateur built. I wouldn't worry so much about the structure, but I would go over the systems very closely.

The safety issues with the airplane are the high landing speed and the lack of any rollover protection. I have seen a few long-eze's with a roll bar of some kind, but the plans did not call for one. A fair number of people have died in long-eze ground loop/rollovers.

The insurance will probably classify it as a retractable gear airplane even though a 'gear up' landing causes almost no damage. You may be able to talk some sense into them.

If I were to buy an airplane it would be a long-eze. I'm not a big fan of canards, but when you compare price to performance and fun it's hard to beat.

Be sure and get a good solid checkout from someone that knows the airplane!!!

Scott

 

[ShawnC]

On the plus side (to some). You can do your own maintenance with an EZ. will have to get an A&P to do the annual (12 mo condition inspection) though. Saves a lot of money in many cases.

I don't believe you can do your own maintenance unless you built it, and then only if you apply for a Repairman's certificate.

 

[sstearns2]

I don't believe you can do your own maintenance unless you built it, and then only if you apply for a Repairman's certificate.

You can do your own MX, but an A/P or the original builder needs to inspect and sign the logbook. T

Scott

 

[ShawnC]

You can do your own MX, but an A/P or the original builder needs to inspect and sign the logbook. T

Scott

I thought you could do that with any aircraft?

 

[flywithastick]

an owner, non-builder can do any maintenance to an amateur built and no other singatures are required. This person would require at least an A&P (or the original builder with the repairmans cert) to sign off the 12 mo condition inspection.

An owner-builder with the repairmans cert for that plane, can do anything to that plane under thier own signature.

New operating limitations can even be established with these levels of approval now, with a recent change in the regs. Not too familiar with these latest changes though.

 

[dtoften]

I too am looking for a Varieze and can't afford the Longeze and have read alot of info. on various forums, auctions, owners, eaa, and canard pusher letters. This is what I have gleened.

Varieze run in the 12,000 to 22,000 range. Longeze are approx 25,000 to 50,000 range. Varieze is intended to be a SIMPLE day VFR (little electronics) with 600 +/- range although some are equiped with strobes,etc. for night VFR. Only seen one equiped for IFR. Longeze is intended to be a day/night VFR with modest IFR equipment if wanted and carry starter, larger alternator and range over 1000. Varieze is slightly faster on average but smaller. Varieze has little payload after 2 adults and 25 +/- gallons of gas. Longez extra payload after 2 adults and 50 gallons of gas.

You can do any maintenance, repair, etc. on an experimental aircraft. Only engine/airframe inspection needed is a conditional inspection every 12 months. This can be done by an AP or the builder if he has gotten a repairman cert for that aircraft only. If IFR, then those need to be done also pitot/static, etc. It is my understanding that if you have a O200 and it has has airworthness cert with O200, then if an AD comes for a O200, then you have to comply with it. That's why some builders put down that they have an experimental motor on cert. so they don't need to comply with ADs even though it could be a O200.

Here's a link for faq and repair of experimentals :
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/faq.html

Also, the Varieze and Longez can have corrision where the wings are removed and should be inspected for wear. I recommend that you read the canard pusher letters which can be found below. They are 15 Megabytes so wait awhile it to load.http://www.eracer.org/canardpusher/cp1to82.html

I would buy a Longez if I could afford it. Most accidents I hear is the nose wheel collasping when landing due to no flare. Only complaint is what other people are saying concerning the building of the airplane. Don't really know what you are getting. However, these airplanes are also overbuilt. Burt Rutan took a builders canard that he missed up building. It has bubbles and delamination. He tested it and it was still over 6 g's before failure.

Varieze has little forward view when climbing compared to Longez. There have been some changes to Longez such as Roncz canards for flying in rain and large rudders for Longez that are talked about in the cp letters.

Enough writing for now. Any questions, just ask.

 

[flywithastick]

Re. the engine, legally you can do anything you want to it with amateur built. No AD compliance is required. Might be a good idea to consider them though! I've heard of some who do keep their engines "legal" using A&P maintenance and all apvd parts per the TCDS, but it's optional.