Would you fly Mesa ?

[typhoonpilot]

I was searching the internet for ways to get from Miami to Salt Lake City late next month. Unfortuantely there are no non-stop flights offered. That would be choice number one. That makes almost any carrier a viable choice with one connection. Some are better positioned than others with their hubs in the proper geographical location. Atlanta, Dallas, Denver, even Las Vegas would be okay. The cheapest flight is America West, but there is one snag. One of the legs on the return would have to be on Mesa.

I don't trust Mesa for three reasons: 1) they put one of my old airlines out of business ( Westair ), 2) Roanoke, and 3) they have a horrible reputation for lack of on time arrivals and numerous flight cancellations.

If you were buying a ticket, would you choose to ride on Mesa ?


TP

 

[LoveGun]

I have met many competent Mesa crews and I have also heard about and witnessed some frightning stuff on Mesa. It's a crap shoot with that airline. I feel bad for the great pilots who work there. Their management sucks, all other pilots groups hate them, and they have to put up with some real losers in their own ranks.

 

[Humty72]

fly Northwest

 

[aewanabe]

The cheapest flight is America West, but there is one snag. One of the legs on the return would have to be on Mesa.

I don't trust Mesa for three reasons: 1) they put one of my old airlines out of business ( Westair ), 2) Roanoke, and 3) they have a horrible reputation for lack of on time arrivals and numerous flight cancellations.

If you were buying a ticket, would you choose to ride on Mesa ?


TP

Typhoon, I've always enjoyed your posts, especially your p.o.v. as an expat American working for a large international carrier... but this post burns me a little. You list three reasons that you wouldn't want to ride on Mesa, right after noting they're the CHEAPEST OPTION. IOW, just like the mostly un-informed American public, you're considering what you perceive to be an inferior product solely because it's cheaper.

Note I said what you perceive to be an inferior product; based on your talking points it probably isn't.

1) If you still have a grudge about how Westair went out of business, you have a legitimate reason not to support that business. Probably doesn't affect the product quality, though.

2) Roanoke. Largely the result of a primacy of learning/negative transference on the Captain's part, coupled with a not-assertive-enough FO. (Remember, Captain went straight from BE1900 right seat to ERJ left seat.) In other words, pilot error, compounded by a company that was expanding exponentially. How many more "prestigious" regionals, not to mention Majors, have had pilot error accidents in the last decade? I also don't believe that Mesa is growing at a rate right now causing upgrades from 1900 right seat to ERJ or CRJ left seat.

3) On-time/completion factor. My company (CHQ) competes directly with Mesa on a couple of codeshares; my anecdotal observations indicate that while they may be below average here, the reputation is based more on past problems than current performance.

Sorry about the soapbox: please don't see it as an attack. What's important to you? If you want to avoid Mesa, vote with your wallet. Support one of the legacy carriers; they sure could use it right now, and I would have to think on your routing you could snag several mainline-to-mainline routings, avoiding RJs altogether. My advice, though, based on the objections you listed is not to worry about it. I've ridden upfront with several of those guys and gals; while we've all griped about their contract situation ad nauseum, they do as professional a job inside the cockpit as any of the rest of us.

So, the abridged version: Yes, I would buy a ticket that included Mesa. But if the price difference wasn't significant, I'd choose the carrier/routing that let me avoid the RJ altogether (and I fly the darned thing for a living!)

 

[Beantown]

Aewanabe. Exactly what I was thinking on all points. -Bean

 

[skootertrash]

Screw Roanoke. How about CLT? It's the corner cutting that made MESA subcontract out for cheaper MX. Which directly lead to 21 peoples' death.


Or How about because MESA has 87 SCABS.

 

[350DRIVER]

typhoonpilot,

I am a little surprised with the lack of professionalism in this post, surely not like you from the threads that I have read in which you contributed to. I guess it was probably a long 4 day for you and this is the way to get things off your back.

If you were buying a ticket, would you choose to ride on Mesa ?

Without a doubt, wouldn't even think twice about this. I know quite a few Mesa guys and they are good people.

I don't trust Mesa for three reasons: 1) they put one of my old airlines out of business ( Westair ), 2) Roanoke, and 3) they have a horrible reputation for lack of on time arrivals and numerous flight cancellations.

1 & 2 are opinions and personal reasons which have no direct effect on them getting you safely from point A to point B. I am not a Mesa pilot but 3 is somewhat comical since things are no different at the other regionals flying these routes. You have been in this "game" long enough to know that flight cancellations and arriving a few minutes late is nothing new to this industry, this applies to Mesa as well. Mesa surely doesn't intentionally cancel and arrive late my friend.

The answer, simple don't fly on them if you do not like what they have to offer.

3 5 0

 

[aewanabe]

Screw Roanoke. How about CLT? It's the corner cutting that made MESA subcontract out for cheaper MX. Which directly lead to 21 peoples' death.


Or How about because MESA has 87 SCABS.

I must be really bored tonight. I can think off the top of my head of two large regionals whose in-house maintenance has caused hull-loss/fatality accidents. As far as SCABS go, while the original Freedom Fukkers were scumbags who helped screw the rest of that pilot group (and indirectly, the rest of us), they're not technically scabs. Like I said in my first reply, Typhoon needs to decide what's really important and then vote with his wallet.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I'm sorry that some take it as unprofessional. It was the thought that popped into my head as I saw the Mesa flight as part of the package. I really like America West. Every time I have flown/jumpseated on them in the past it has been a good experience. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a ticket on this trip if it was only America West mainline. I will pay more for a more comfortable and safer product because I am travelling with my pregnant wife.

Maybe mentioning Roanoke was a cheap shot but it is what I thought about. As a father to be, protecting my unborn child by choosing the safest option is a consideration. I appreciate your comments aewanabe and maybe I am being a bit irrational. Roanoke was a few years ago now and you are very correct in pointing out that happened during a time of rapid expansion and quick upgrades.

The on time consideration is important because the Mesa segment leaves a short connection on the return. America West doesn't have multiple flights a day to Miami so missing that flight would result in a serious inconvenience.

Typhoonpilot

 

[Cactus73]

Mesa is fine. You could easily buy a ticket on another airline and end up misconnecting.

As for the safety factor. Go to www.ntsb.gov and seach all the "regionals"

Every airline has had its problems.

Coex put an ERJ off the runway in CLE - lots of damage. Crashed one on a training flight - BPT

Eagle just destroyed an ATR in SJU during a hard landing.

I'm sure you could find lots more if you search the NTSB site.

Bottom line is that they are all safe. And yes, they have all had some problems. Even SWA has had some pilot error incidents recently.

Seems like you don't like Mesa, so vote with your wallet.

 

[skootertrash]

COEX hasn't killed anyone in a long time.

 

[General Lee]

Fly Delta through ATL (a beautiful hub with no delays, ever), and then onto SLC. We need your money now, to help pay for our pilot contract. (it is all our fault!)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Checknsix]

Screw Roanoke. How about CLT? It's the corner cutting that made MESA subcontract out for cheaper MX. Which directly lead to 21 peoples' death.
.

Skootertrash,

Are you aware that the contract MX on the CLT flight was Raytheon?? Generally not considered a third rate name. And most might think they would have an advantage, actually being the manufacturer of the 1900.

- Checknsix

 

[Beantown]

COEX hasn't killed anyone in a long time.

And Mesa has never killed anyone. -Bean

(Air Midwest has the same pilots as Mesa but is not Mesa

 

[regionalhell]

Only as a last resort.

I used to have to deadhead, and even once or twice, jumpseat on mesa with my old company.

Their reliability got so bad that our scheduling department was told by CP's office, "no more scheduled deadheads on mesa."

I worked with a bunch of mesa haters that accused mesa of everything under the sun, including sucking as pilots. But, I had pretty much always written that off as bitterness. That is until the last time I rode their jumpseat.

The crew first got my attention when they got lost taxiing out at the departure airport and almost caused a runway incursion, if ground hadn't intervened.

The crew was so behind the airplane during descent and approach that they were forced to go missed because they couldn't get it stabilized.

Thats all fine and good, except they didn't execute there missed approach procedures, which I would assume calls for cleaning up the airplane!!!!!
When the stick shaker started going off I almost sh*t my pants.

That is the only time in my life I have truely been scared to death in an airplane.

I'm sure that type of thing happens from time to time everywhere. But I haven't ridden mesa since.

 

[StarChecker]

Would you fly Colgan? After some of the stuff I've read/heard....no thanks. Nothing against their pilots....just sounds like some shady MX stuff.

 

[Beantown]

Screw Roanoke. How about CLT? It's the corner cutting that made MESA subcontract out for cheaper MX. Which directly lead to 21 peoples' death.

-Alaskas in house MX helped cause the death of 120+ people so you shouldn't fly them
-Southwest might give you a free ride to the nearest gas station so you shouldn't fly them.
-Coex seems to have problems staying on the runway so stay away from them.
-Eagle pilots are trying to get credit for more then one landings on each arrival so there out.
-American has no problem pushing the 16 hr rule and then testing there superior flying skills landing in level 5 T.S, can't fly them.
-US Airways and United fly 737's and those planes seem to like to fly upside down when close to the ground, buy buy.
-Colgans in house MX can't follow the manuals, out.

I think you get the picture. -Bean

 

[Checknsix]

I don't trust Mesa for three reasons: 1) they put one of my old airlines out of business ( Westair ), 2) Roanoke, and 3) they have a horrible reputation for lack of on time arrivals and numerous flight cancellations.

TP

Typhoonpilot,

Better put COEX on that list of yours. I believe they had three instructors in the cockpit of that jet they totaled in Houston. And then American had a RCP sitting in the seat for the one in Little Rock. Somebody already mentioned SWA in Burbank and Eagle in PR. That's four more airlines you shouldn't fly. Out of all of these incidents, the only hull that is still flying is the Roanoke ERJ at Mesa. By the way, what was the name of your airline again??? No skeletons there I assume.

Also, in defense of Mesa's ability to maintain a flight schedule, you need to remember that for the most part, they do not own/operate the gate/ramp crews. Their partners do. The vast majority of delays go to weather, and delays due to ground ops. Now throw in a couple of bankrupt partners that are trying to operate their ground crews on a dime, and Mesa doesn't get much of a break.

Who do you work for again?

- Checknsix

 

[scabseeker]

Understand your plates!!!!

2) Roanoke. Largely the result of a primacy of learning/negative transference on the Captain's part, coupled with a not-assertive-enough FO. (Remember, Captain went straight from BE1900 right seat to ERJ left seat.) In other words, pilot error, compounded by a company that was expanding exponentially. How many more "prestigious" regionals, not to mention Majors, have had pilot error accidents in the last decade? I also don't believe that Mesa is growing at a rate right now causing upgrades from 1900 right seat to ERJ or CRJ left seat.

The main problem wasn't with flying the airplane. The problem was reading that night departures weren't authorized off 33 and then thinking that meant no going around. I thought we learned about going around in Private Pilot school and reading approach plates in Instrument class. How does that have anything to do with changing seats and airplanes?

Who the frick reads "no night departures" and thinks...well looks like were landing no matter what!!?? Wait, I know one person.

 

[aewanabe]

Granted, while "go-around isn't an option" will live in infamy, that's not what actually CAUSED the accident. My reference was to the captain being 1/2 dot high and plus 10 knots at 300 AGL and responding by going to flight idle and removing her hands from the thrust levers.