World Doing "Struck Work" Against ATA???

[redneck jihad]

Bel and Tri- interesting back and forth. I'm learning lots.

From the World pilots board:

"From the ATA forum: (701TZ is soon to be N139WA)

'As sar as I'm concerned, flying this airplane is considered struck
work: tracked aircraft N701TZ has just taken off from KMZJ (Pinal
Airpark) en route to KATL (Hartsfield-Jackson Intl) for an arrival at
04:16PM EDT.'

Just in case you wondered how some of the ATA guys feel about it."

So, sounds like there's three a$$holes out there(or maybe one) that like to stir up $hit: the ATA guy, the World guy, and Wabi Sabi. I don't know (personally) the World guy that posted it, but when I run across him, I'll be sure and ask him why he felt the need to enlighten us as to "how some of the ATA guys feel about it", even though it was stated by ONE former ATA pilot. More than likely, the original post from the ATA forum was the result of excessive alcohol and residual "commuter god syndrome"-they like to redefine words like 'scab', 'struck work', etc. (no offense to my regional friends). And perhaps Wabi Sabi just stumbled back from the bar and just couldn't pass out untill he posted on FI (what a dumba$$).

I hope and trust that World will continue to hire former ATA pilots. I doubt that World management will be browsing FI to help in their decision to do so.

And if World told you that they'd call you back for an interview and they didn't, you need to be reaching out to them on a regular basis (every couple days). They're very busy- they have trouble returning calls to the folks that already work here.

 

[Tristar]

OK, now we’re starting to get somewhere. I tried to keep this brief, but without much success, and for that I apologize in advance.

1. I would work towards a lifeline for me and my fellow out of work ATA pilots. <snip>

I believe that has been done and is continuing – it seems we pretty much have common ground there. It seems the main point of contention is whether single carrier status per the RLA applied before shutdown. The determination of that is well above my paygrade (and I suspect yours as well). That’s where the courts come into the whole thing, in part to determine if that status existed. Based on what I have been told there was a compelling argument for it, and I still believe having single carrier status would have strengthened labor at all three carriers. But that’s just my opinion – I could be wrong . . .

2. I would expect the WOA EXCO to enforce the contract right up until shutdown (provided ATA did not assume any former WOA scope flying) In a merger you need to bring some kind of flying to the table. Its all gone. WOA did not take it. So the June lawsuit became a threat to WOA pilots. You have to see that.

We at least partially agree here. Again, it goes back to RLA single carrier status. You say no, I say yes – I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on that one, and that’s fine by me. Obviously it’s a dead issue now anyway. I do see your point about the threat, but again the intent was not to take from World pilots, but simply to secure that lifeline that you mentioned for ATA pilots. I believe lack of understanding is the real culprit here. And again, I’ll reiterate I (and other ATA’ers I spoke with) didn’t support any sort of list merge which would have taken anything away from World pilots.

3. WOA/NAA were addressing it in a proper manner. The shutdown of ATA and loss of all AMC team flying and SW code share changed the landscape. There is nothing left of ATA to merge with.

What manner was this? In understand your point here about nothing left to merge with, but try to understand mine as well. This is the most extreme version of exactly what a common list was intended to avert. Matlin Patterson continues to buy airlines, and who knows who they might shut down tomorrow. That said, World has been fortunate in recent years to have competent management, a blessing missing at ATA for the entire time I was there. Hopefully World’s position is more secure than ATA’s and this will never be a factor, but the threat still exists.

4. Agree to a point. You say its only the ATA 1% that blame WOA/NAA for part of the ATA shutdown. Judging from all the attacks and name calling on WOA pilots on this forum instead of attacking your 1% is not helping your "blaming it on the 1% theory. Maybe its more like 30%. We at WOA do not know. What we know is that we do not want any of those angry ATA pilots here. We like the ones we have at WOA now.

I’ve follow these boards fairly closely, and I don’t remember seeing the volume of attacks you describe. In fairness I think you have to write off comments written in the first days after the shutdown. Guys are justifiably angry and in shock, you just can’t put much stock in statements made in that time frame.

There are number of ATA pilots who want nothing to do with another GAL company, and I think given the course of events, that’s understandable. By and large they wish World no ill will, they just don’t trust GAL not to pull the plug on them again – which I think that is understandable.

I re-read this entire thread, excluding the subject of the original post, I haven’t seen anyone calling you names (perhaps it’s been deleted). I’ll concede I’ve hurled a few insults your way, but you have done the same – the reason for my rather verbose posts in fact. I take offense to being tarred and feathered with a broad brush: You stated that I called you a scab and was trying to steal your seat. I think you have to see that.

I feel as many WOA pilots feel we do not want the 1% or 30% of bitter towards any GAL employment, pilots causing trouble here at WOA. Aviation is a small community and we at WOA hear what is being said on your boards.

I quickly reviewed our board – I didn’t see much negative about World. I’ll grant (as I’ve already said) there are a number of guys who want nothing to do with MP or GAL, and that is their prerogative, but is it fair to lump all ATA pilots into one group based on a few? This is the core of my disagreement with your position. I don’t blame you for not wanting those who don’t want to be at World, but that’s really a non-issue – they aren’t going to try to get hired there anyhow, and even if they did their attitude would probably come out in the interview.

You need to address that instead of attacking WOA pilots.

I don’t recall attacking World pilots – in fact I’ve had nothing but positive to say about those I’ve had the pleasure of talking to (again excepting the barbs I’ve directed at you). With the one exception (who was called on the carpet on our board for the original post), I haven’t seen anyone else attacking World pilots. Guys angry at GAL, yes – but they don’t want to go to World. Again, a non issue as far as this subject is concerned.

You must realize that we are a small pilot group. We can call the V.P. of flight ops and he will take the time to talk to us. So guess what? If he gets too many complaints the fast track will shutdown. Management does not want that 1% or 30% here either. [note: emphasis added]

THAT is exactly my concern. I don’t want that to happen, and you are publicly calling for exactly that. I have no problem keeping the 1% to 30% out – like I said, they don’t want to be at World anyhow. What about the other 70% to 99%? Do they pay for the sins of the few?

You and your fellow pilots trashing us on these boards need to remember that for the benefit of those ATA pilots wanting employment at WOA. The name calling does no good at all.

I have never trashed "us" - that is all World pilots, I have a great deal of respect for World pilots. They have done essentially the same things many of us did at ATA, and I view them as brothers in arms. I have fired some shots at you because of statements you have made publicly on this board.

I am keenly aware of the potential harm which can come from statements made on these boards, which is why I take such exception to you declaring,

“I will make it simple for you. They = ATA pilots.”

In other posts you have insinuated that I personally had negative designs for both World and NAA pilots

“You are showing your true colors . . .Are you listening NAA pilots?

which is completely untrue. I’ll concede I could have responded in a “kinder, gentler” fashion, but you can’t defame an entire group and expect to get a pass on it.

Likewise, I expected the original poster on ATA’s board who made the struck work comment to be called up on it. He was, and I stand by my statement that such a viewpoint is a very small percentage of ATA pilots.

Again, I apologize for running on so long with this, but this is important stuff. I (obviously) feel very strongly about having highly qualified ATA pilots excluded from consideration for employment because of a few statements made by a very few individuals. If I personally have contributed to that sentiment, I apologize – I’ve only tried to shine some light on a statement which I feel is grossly unjust.

 

[CaptSeth]

I have bemusedly been watching this exchange. Here is the explanation of the original post - which was probably conveniently overlooked by whoever chose to stir up BS by putting it on the World board:

To be clear:

I do not believe any of the DC-10'S, least of all 701, ever left the operational control of Global Aero Logistics (otherwise known as ATA Holdings), and as such any ATA pilot involved in their movement is violating the seniority provisions of the CBA.

The transfer of these aircraft to World is covered by the fragmentation and scope provisions and is subject to an ongoing grievance process. At no point did I say that World Pilots in particular were doing struck work, but should our grievances result in a favorable ruling, there will likely be consequences to GAL. Struck work is an incorrect term but it is how I feel and I'm sure that their are more than a few Pan American, Eastern, and TWA pilots that understand what that is like.

I don't have any hope of working at a GAL company as they clearly will not hire any union people, but I do not appreciate my comments being paraphrased and posted elsewhere. As such, you won't be getting any more of them.

So, to summarize:

I never inferred anything at all about World or NAA pilots.

I explained, on a discreet, internal message board, that these were my personal FEELINGS, and not facts.

I also take responsibility for my statements. I am still unemployed, and while there may be repercussions for me personally for making a public statement, I do not want to see my fellow ATA pilots made to suffer for what is plainly a misquote and grave misunderstanding that has been exploited by an insecure opportunist.

 

[dutch747]

Seth,

Although I don't agree with your statement. I respect your right to post your feelings as you see fit. Especially on an internal message board. This thread is ridiculous and should have never been started.

My two cents.

Dutch

 

[pilotpm]

Seth,

Although I don't agree with your statement. I respect your right to post your feelings as you see fit. Especially on an internal message board. This thread is ridiculous and should have never been started.

My two cents.

Dutch

Amen!uke:

 

[waka]

double post

 

[WabiSabi]

So, sounds like there's three a$$holes out there(or maybe one) that like to stir up $hit: the ATA guy, the World guy, and Wabi Sabi. I don't know (personally) the World guy that posted it, but when I run across him, I'll be sure and ask him why he felt the need to enlighten us as to "how some of the ATA guys feel about it", even though it was stated by ONE former ATA pilot. More than likely, the original post from the ATA forum was the result of excessive alcohol and residual "commuter god syndrome"-they like to redefine words like 'scab', 'struck work', etc. (no offense to my regional friends). And perhaps Wabi Sabi just stumbled back from the bar and just couldn't pass out untill he posted on FI (what a dumba$$).

I hope and trust that World will continue to hire former ATA pilots. I doubt that World management will be browsing FI to help in their decision to do so.

And if World told you that they'd call you back for an interview and they didn't, you need to be reaching out to them on a regular basis (every couple days). They're very busy- they have trouble returning calls to the folks that already work here.

look, I already confessed that I posted out of frustration and acknowledged to the UPS (former ATA) guy that I was out of bounds when posting info from a private message board. yet you felt the need to post nothing but ad hominem attacks and play holier than thou with such exalted thread topic analysis. who is really trying to stir the pot?

hypocrite.

 

[redneck jihad]

mmmm-kay