Wonderful Read. We should LEARN and PROSPER

[AnimalTale]

Thanks Yip- but management has high powered, expensive attorneys that advocate their position. We dont need to help them do that. I advocate from the pilot's perspective. We're the only ones who will do that.

I agree.Look how funny it is..We have "cooks" now that will get mad if you dont call them "CHEF" before their names. I am amazed, watching Food Network, how Cooks, oops I mean CHEFS, respect themselves by bringing themselves "up"..

In fact, cooks get paid a lot more now (work longer) because of this shift..

CYA

 

[pilotyip]

Yes, go for it, But

Thanks Yip- but management has high powered, expensive attorneys that advocate their position. We dont need to help them do that. I advocate from the pilot's perspective. We're the only ones who will do that.

But much like the look out saying to the Captain of the Titanic, "there might be ice bergs out there". Someone has to bring up the down side of potential actions.

what bothers me is that if you change companies for one reason or the other you have to start at the bottom of the pay scale regardless of your experience. What CEOs or management have to do that?

I think that has been discussed under a single national seniority list in another thread. That is where a pilot would never have to take a pay cut. If they lost their job, they could just cut in line in front pilots at other airlines based upon DOH. There would certainly be no down side to that would there.

 

[waveflyer]

Yip-That's only one way to skin a very real- and dare I say GENEROUS- seniority problem-

as for those icebergs- doesn't management have to worry about those icebergs as well? A strike, chaos or full, is a risk and will weaken your company- that affects everyone- hopefully union negotiator are fully educated on the status of the company and aren't asking for the death of the golden goose-
however, you seem to think that any pilot group will ever get raises without the threat of a strike? If mgmt knows we aren't truly willing to walk- they would not be doing their job if they granted the raises.

EVERY professional will never get paid their worth UNTIL they are willing to walk away.

 

[pilotyip]

Yip-That's only one way to skin a very real- and dare I say GENEROUS- seniority problem-EVERY professional will never get paid their worth UNTIL they are willing to walk away.

And in most professions if you don't like it, you walk away to a better job. Other professionals even have headhunters call them and say I can get you $50K more at ABC for solving their problems. This gets management’s attention when they can not retain professionals that make their company operate. They throw money at the problem to retain key people. Pilots could get management's attention by leaving their present jobs. But as I said before there is a down side to this, it is extremely difficult to match a pilot’s present salary in a new pilot job. Not many headhunters are calling pilots because their skills are interchangeable. Pilot’s pay is based upon seniority, not upon a unique skill, once you move beyond the minimum skills to hold the job.

 

[waveflyer]

I say that discounts, incredibly, the benefits experience provides an airline. Bean counter logic through and through.

 

[pilotyip]

I say that discounts, incredibly, the benefits experience provides an airline. Bean counter logic through and through.

The top ten airlines have no experience shortage in their cockpits.

 

[Dan Roman]

average CEO pay to average worker pay in 1980: 40x's greater

average CEO pay to average worker pay in 2008: 319x's greater

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/pay/

Thanks! That right there will be the downfall of this country if anything is. It was a strong middle class that built this country, the few at the top want more and everyone else will get less. Simple as that.

 

[waveflyer]

The top ten airlines have no experience shortage in their cockpits.

And how many young pilots are in the pipeline now? when I started flying, the financial equation was more profitable- now flt training costs twice as much and major airline careers pay half as well- experienced pilots don't grow on trees- And it's not a process that can be rushed just bc bean counters all of a sudden realize they should have been paying better - (regardless of MPL)

none of which recognizes that we get paid what we COLLECTIVELY bargain- hence ignoring union issues and pretending that we get paid strict market wages is flat out wrong.