Women vs. Men in Aviation

[Hugh Jorgan]

How to stop discrimination in hiring: Make it illegal to show any reference to, or keep any records of sex or race on company employees. No reference on the job application, no records kept to report. If it's illegal to keep a record or have a reference to any race on file, then there would be no motivation to hire a person based on race or gender. This is a pipe dream, of course, but think about it. How could this not work?

 

[CapnVegetto]

That'd never work. You've still got names, which is easy to figure out. Don't forget face to face interviews too.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

That'd never work. You've still got names, which is easy to figure out. Don't forget face to face interviews too.

I know it would never work because it would never happen. But in theory, an employer would hire who they want, based on the individual without trying to put some stupid check in a box.
Maybe we'd put a few of these uppity womenz back in the kitchen where they belong!

 

[Diesel]

Remember that clip from the man show when they are in uniform at the bar.

Yeah there are women pilots. They just aren't any good.

Now that was a funny skit.

 

[Vespa]

I have found that women still have to be qualified. I have interviewed at jobs with other women who were qualified and still didn't get the job and some of the men did. I guess it depends on who you know, were you are interviewing and your personality.

I didn't get a job once because I was a woman and the individual that owned the plane didn't feel comfortable with a woman pilot.

I think it is a little tougher in the corporate world than the airline world. I know more women flying for airlines than I do flying corporate and 135.

 

[TheRaven]

I applied to United Airlines with a friend of mine who happens to be a woman, and we joked that this would finally dispel the myth that guys are at a disadvantage. I had twice the flight time she did (3500 hrs to her 1600+/-), and I had a 4 year degree from ERAU to her 2 year associates degree from a community college (I graduated with a GPA well above hers too). We joked that if she even got called it would be a miracle. We filled out our Apps and mailed em the same moment, and both got the return receipt about a week later.

End result.....She got called for an interview 23 days after applying (they wanted to follow up the letter in case she hadn't received it yet). I never heard a word. So you tell me, who had the advantage.

 

[TheChief]

great...all we need are more cracks in the cockpit

 

[FN FAL]

great...all we need are more cracks in the cockpit

We all be hoes...some of us jus be prettier than the others.

 

[coolyokeluke]

So how many of you fill out the questionaire (that they say is optional) about gender, ethnicity, veteran's status when hired by somebody? Being a white male I usually leave it blank, maybe that will keep the bean counters guessing. Then they won't know for certain how badly certain minorities are being under-represented so in the future I can get a better shot at a job!

I agree with the sentiment that hiring should be based on ability and qualifications, not gender or race. Period, end of sentence.

 

[Traumahawk]

Remember that clip from the man show when they are in uniform at the bar. Now that was a funny skit.

"Yes we have women pilots...they're not very good...but we have 'em"

Now cmon, howd they figure this out...coincidence??

~T-HAWK

 

[CapnVegetto]

There's a woman copilot where I work. I've been flying with her for about the last 2 weeks, and she's DAM good. She's green, fresh out of instructing, and is still a bit behind the airplane, but for having no jet time, she's still good at the job, and that's what matters. She'll get better as she gains experience too. The fact that she's a woman doesn't have anything to do with it. She's as good as any of the other male copilots.

Now, with that being said, every other female I've flown with as an instructor, or professional pilot has been the opposite. NOT good at all.

I think it's just the way we are. Men are simply better at technical stuff. It's not sexist, pigheaded, or whatever, it's just the dam truth. That's the way we're built. That's the way our brains function. Women are better at languages, interpretation, etc. Men are better at math and science. There are, of course, exceptions. There always are. But, as a whole, that's just the way things are. Women suck at football. Men suck at gymnastics. It's just the differences between genders. Men, as a whole, are better at flying airplanes.

Let the PC police come flying, but I don't care.....that's just the way it is and none of your stupid "you've offended me!!" rhetoric is going to change that. It's been that way since human beings existed. Men are better at some things than women, and women are better than some things at men. Just accept it, because that's life.

 

[Traumahawk]

CapnVegetto..I think many of us have had the same experiences...I know I have.

Couldn't be said better. Just the truth, exeptions included.

I'll duck now...

T-Hawk

P.S. Not to contradict but I have heard the "social" reasonings...which may be true, but reasons aside, this is how it is right now.

 

[HiFlyChick]

...Men are simply better at technical stuff....Women are better at languages, interpretation, etc. Men are better at math and science. ...Women suck at football. Men suck at gymnastics...

No way, man - you're so off base there. The studies I've heard concerning mathematics say that men are better at spatial problems, while women are better at calculation-type problems. It's not that men are better at math and science, but rather that women from an early age are socialized to believe that that is true, and that if you are a women who is good at science/math, you must therefore be overly masculine. Also, many men seem to have a problem if "their woman" is perceived to be more of a "higher achiever" than they are. I once had a female co-worker who was a very educated metallurgical engineer, and also a very pretty redhead. She was lamenting one time about how when she went to a bar, guys would come over and talk to her, but when they got to the question "So what do you do?" it wasn't long before they'd hightail it outta there.

Comparing physical traits such as adaptations to certain sports may hold water, but basically you're saying that women are artsy fartsy while the really difficult problems should be left to men....soo-o-o-o far off...

 

[Lucky13]

I think you all have it wrong. We all know that when you go to an interview the ONE main thing that gets us the job is...do they want to spend a month flying with you. Our industry has been dominated by men since it started and they (we) are the ones doing the interviews. Who would you pick some young guy or some young gal? Be honest with your self when you pick! There are a hundred reasons an older male interviewer may pick the girl.

Think about it.

(This so reminds me of a PFT type thread!)

 

[CapnVegetto]

No way, man - you're so off base there. The studies I've heard concerning mathematics say that men are better at spatial problems, while women are better at calculation-type problems. It's not that men are better at math and science, but rather that women from an early age are socialized to believe that that is true, and that if you are a women who is good at science/math, you must therefore be overly masculine. Also, many men seem to have a problem if "their woman" is perceived to be more of a "higher achiever" than they are. I once had a female co-worker who was a very educated metallurgical engineer, and also a very pretty redhead. She was lamenting one time about how when she went to a bar, guys would come over and talk to her, but when they got to the question "So what do you do?" it wasn't long before they'd hightail it outta there.

Comparing physical traits such as adaptations to certain sports may hold water, but basically you're saying that women are artsy fartsy while the really difficult problems should be left to men....soo-o-o-o far off...

I knew I'd manage to pi$$ off some liberal woman with that post. I know this from experience, not from 'studies'. This is from 12 years of school, 4 years of college, and 8 years of flying. Your redheaded friend is one of the exceptions. I'd imagine that she's probably VERY smart, and a hell of a lot better at math and metallurgical engineering than I'd ever be, but she's the exception to the rule. Who knows? Had I wanted to, I probably would've been a helluva engineer. I never made anything less than an A in math in college, right up to Calculus. I know it's nowhere near what she's done, but had things been different, who knows?

As far as your theory about what women are conditioned to believe, show me something to back it up. What you said is exactly the PC answer, when real world experience tells otherwise. With all the PC, equality and happy happy gumdrop houses liberal crap going on these days, I'd be very interested to see ANY hard evidence that would substantiate this claim. All I've got is my life experience. What I've seen for the last 20 years. (No, I'm not 20.....when I was in diapers and picking my nose doesn't count). Yes, there are plenty of men that are threatened by women that are better at something than them, but I'm not one of them. If a woman can beat the hell out of me at something, more power to her. (And I promise you, it HAS happened. )

As far as your hot readheaded friend goes, does she like pigheaded conservative pilots?

 

[FN FAL]

Chicks can fly planes just as good as men...why are we arguing this topic again and again. Just because you know of a chick that's not the best pilot, doesn't mean that all chicks cannot fly a plane well. Get over it.

Now when it comes to cocking things...chicks can cock things pretty good, but not too many chicks can cock a G-3. But we, as a brotherhood of man, fixed that problem with the advent of lighter sub-caliber rifles. You could almost say that because of women, the era of the main battle rifle sunset and the modern assault rifle was born.

 

[TurboS7]

In order for a company to bid and comply with any US government contract they have to have so many minorities, women, etc. If they don't maintain the status quo then guess what no contract.

 

[91100 100 set]

Having a wanker is definately a disadvantage in any professional field. Combine that with the further misfortune of being white and your pretty well screwed these days. I still wouldn't want to be a chick though

If I was a chick, I'd never have made it as a pilot 'cause I'd never leave the house (look at these sweater kittens!). But I'm probably only saying that because I'm a guy.

Seriously, the only lady pilots I have a problem with are the ones that make a big deal about being a lady pilot.

 

[Peanut gallery]

My .02

I have flown with quite a few pilots both male and female. The amount of good ones and bad ones did not seem to be gender specific. I do think that women pilots do better in the airline world. Mostly because what is expected of them is in line with their expectations. The corporate and 135 game seems to have a more gender based expectation. The only short coming that I have found in women aviators is the ability to limp an airplane home. In the airline world this is not expected and actually frowned upon so that only weakness is not a factor.
Women do get preferencial interviewing at the airlines but they still have to get through the interview which is in most cases very professionally done. Women do have additional resources in the forms of mentoring groups that help prepare them for the interview process. This same information is available to everyone but may have to be digged for by a male applicant.

Just my .02

 

[GetMyCoffee]

Ya'll don't like flyin with a set of boobies? You purple-headed yogart slingers should stay at home, take off your pink panties and finger your vag.