WOFT Selection Boards

[Ollie]

You will be authorized to move your wife to Rucker during flight school and you'll be eligible for post housing. During in-processing WOCS you'll stop at the housing office and put your name on the wait list so that, by the time you finish WOCS, there will be housing available.

For an active duty guy, all the advanced aircraft training is done at Rucker. There are only 4 airframes that you could get coming out of flight school. RES/NG guys have other training sites available to them.

Your scores sound quite competitive. Your next point of order needs to be developing some good responses to the questions they're sure to ask (see above posts). If you interview well and your surgery waiver is granted, you're good to go.

 

[Traderd]

How is the training structured at Mother Rucker nowadays?

When I entered in 1983, we did 6 weeks of WOCD, followed by primary training in Th-55s, contact training in the UH-1 followed by Basic/Advanced instruments in the UH-1. At that point, you were either tracked in scouts and went to the Scout program in OH-58s or Utility tracked and did Combat skills training in the UH-1 followed by an Advanced Aircraft Qualification Course (AAQC) in the Hawk, Cobra or Chinook. I think it was also a possibility that one could go directly to the Fixed Wing transition out of combat skills training.

Also, prior to my class, the scout track was not an option. They basically took the top performers in the class and put them in that track. However, we were allowed to choose either the scout track or our the aircraft transition of our liking after we finished instruments, based on our class standing. I was lucky enough to be in the top few so I elected out of scouts and went to combat skills training and then to Cobra Hall for the AH-1 transition.

I know everything has changed and that the TH-67 is the primary flight trainer, but I'm just curious to see how the rest of the program flows now.

By the way wannabe, when I went to flight school, there was a real advantage to being married. At that time, you did not receive your bar until after you finished all of flight school (but before any AQC). As such, the lowly Warrant Officer Candidates (WOC) were not allowed to live off base until very late in the program, unless you were married. Then, you could move off post immediately following primary flight training. Which I did - moved into the Green Acre apartments in senic Daleville Alabama. I believe candidates now are promoted to W1 as soon as they finish WOCD. Ahhh - the easy life!

 

[psysicx]

How do you like flying in the AD Army.It seems to have mixed results.Also with the war what is the deployment rate like.I heard one year on one year off is this correct.

 

[Ollie]

As of right now, there are 2 distinctly different programs being run at Rucker for initial entry aviators - BCS (basic combat skills, or the "traditional" track) and flight school XXI (FSXXI).

First, all students must attend several weeks of pre-flight traning studying aeromedical factors, cockpit familiarization, and startup procedures (they're trying to lower the high number of hot starts on the flight line). Then, they attend primary in the TH-67 which is the military version of the Bell 206B3 JetRanger for 8 weeks. After that comes 4 weeks of UH-1/TH-67 instrument flight simulator training. During this time, students do 2 weeks of basic instruments (attitude flying), then 2 weeks of advanced instruments (radio navigation) in a full motion sim. After that comes 4 weeks in instrument certified 67's flying all over AL, FL, and GA shooting approaches and sampling the country cuisine.

That's the point at which the student body splits into the 2 "tracks" to finish the remainder of their flight traning. As of right now, at the end of instruments, students are called into the company office for a meeting. At that meeting, cadre puts out how many FSXXI slots are allocated from DA and for what airframes. At that point, the guy at the top of the order of merit list (OML) based on grades from academics and flight line gets his first choice of FSXXI slots. The trend seems to be top couple go 47's, the next 8-10 go 60's, the next couple go 58's, and then a couple of 64's. The rest of the people get BCS. Before I get flamed, let me issue a disclaimer saying that these were the approximate numbers from my specific class - I have the extreme respect for all airframes and, to be honest, I really had a difficult time deciding what I wanted at the time. They're trying to get funding to allow all active duty personnel to get FSXXI by fiscal year 2006 and all personnel, regardless of component, by 2008.

The FSXXI group, as a whole, then attends a 2 week basic terrain navigation course where they fly as passengers in OH-58's learning to navigate low level and contour using a trusty 1/50,000 map. After that, everybody splits up to go to their specific airframe and do 12-20 weeks of airframe specific training.

The BCS group begins a 12 week course flying OH-58's where they learn terrain flight, tactics, nights, etc. before they go on to their advanced aircraft.

After BCS and FSXXI, everybody comes back together for aviation officer basic course, which is an 8 week course that teaches the ins and outs of being an aviation officer and includes a couple weeks of SERE (level B right now, but expect C by year's end). About half way through OBC, active duty people that went BCS will choose airframes and duty assignments based on the OML. FSXXI people only choose duty assignments. At OBC graduation, everybody gets their wings. After that is a dunker course then you're outta there.

 

[wannabearmy]

Great information Ollie - you guys are all really helpful, and I appreciate your time. I imagine that choosing your airframe is a very tough decision. Every one has its own appeal. Did your decision become easier while you were in school? What factors made you decide the 47? I know everybody I've talked to that flew/flies that bird absolutely raves about it. I'd love to hear what other airframe pilots have to say about their airframes and some of the reasons they chose it. Thanks again everybody. Going to meet my recruiter tonight, finalize my packet.

 

[weekendwarrior]

So is BCS still around? When I was there in 2003, BCS was supposedly going away very soon, and it was all going to be FSXX1.

Ah yes, heard that OBC (WOBC when I was there) is now 8 weeks. It was only 6 just last February when I went through. SERE C? They said in 2003 that it was supposed to be there by the end of the year.....

 

[Ollie]

After trying to talk with everybody under the sun about what they flew, how they liked it, and other details, somebody finally told me to choose a mission, not an airframe. I thought about it for a while and it really made sense to me. At some point in instruments, all the students attended a brief where a pilot from each airframe give a talk about his aircraft and answered any questions. Each one showed pictures, movies, and told stories that they felt would help us make educated decisions on what we wanted to do with our careers. I chose the 47 mission. Everybody will tell you that their airframe is best for one reason or another - it's up to you to decide what's important to you.

 

[Ollie]

So is BCS still around? When I was there in 2003, BCS was supposedly going away very soon, and it was all going to be FSXX1.

Ah yes, heard that OBC (WOBC when I was there) is now 8 weeks. It was only 6 just last February when I went through. SERE C? They said in 2003 that it was supposed to be there by the end of the year.....

Yeah, BCS is still around. The majority of BCS students are NG/RES with active duty getting into the FSXXI slots.

As for the SERE C, you know how the rumor mill works. All I know is that they did a font page spot in the Army Flier about how CW2 Williams, one of the Apache pilots that was downed and subsequently captured a while back, is here putting the SERE C course together. Other than that, who knows...

 

[Traderd]

Thanks for the update Ollie. Doesn't seem like a whole lot has changed in 20years if they still utilize the UH-1 sim!

AC selection still seems reserved for the top performers. I always hated it for the guys prior to my class that ended up in the scout track because they performed the best.

One more question, are the WO's doing OBC with the RLO's now?

Thanks again and enjoy your career. I will admit to being biased to the Hawk. One of the primary reasons I left AD was based on the fact I was going to have to go 64's and I had just had enough of Attack and wanted something different. Cobra guys saw the writing on the wall since at the time they couldn't get enough guys through the Apache course and we already had quite a bit of gun time anyway.

Best of luck.

 

[weekendwarrior]

After trying to talk with everybody under the sun about what they flew, how they liked it, and other details, somebody finally told me to choose a mission, not an airframe. I thought about it for a while and it really made sense to me. At some point in instruments, all the students attended a brief where a pilot from each airframe give a talk about his aircraft and answered any questions. Each one showed pictures, movies, and told stories that they felt would help us make educated decisions on what we wanted to do with our careers. I chose the 47 mission. Everybody will tell you that their airframe is best for one reason or another - it's up to you to decide what's important to you.

Very well said. The mission. A friend of mine had passion for the Apache, but said, "I just don't like the mission". So he's flying -60s. He was number 1 in the class, so he could have had anything he wanted. For me, I'm National Guard, so I didn't have a choice, but if I were to do it all over again, I'd fly the Apache, just because I LOVE the aircraft. Plus, I came from an Artillery background, so guns and me get along real well.

All the guys I talked to really like the 47. Believe it or not, some people don't like their airframe. But you do find a way some way to like it. There are alot of things I don't like about the Apache, but I enjoy more than I dislike.

Whatever you choose, you'll like it I'm sure. Flight school is fun, you'll be frustrated at times but when you look back on it, you'll say you enjoyed yourself.

 

[Hobit]

Wannabe,

First of all, I hope you have checked out www.aptap.org

Just like everyone else has said, choose the mission. I chose Gun's for a very specific reason and didn't look back.
I LOVED being the guy who layed down the hate and discontent when some sh!tbag threatened my bud's.

Do NOT fall into the trap that most do and criticize the other airframes once you pick your path. Ask them about their mission and learn their mission too, you'll be working together if you are going to carry on the tradition of Army Aviation. A good precursor to this is the 'Common Area' in WOC school. (you'll understand)

You'll see the penile-envy syndrome big time in the real army(outside of TRADOC). But, when you go somewhere for real and you find yourself flying real-live missions with hawks, hooks, or scooters..you'll grow to realize the tough job they do and respect them because each airframe has great folks and they bring an awesome piece of the puzzle to the game. I know, I know, it sounds corny but it will click out in bum fork egypt some day when you see it all come together. That is the thing that makes the poor QOL worth it.

I chose Guns because I talked to a former attack dude who explained how all of the armament systems worked and the different types of warheads, weapons, and engagement techniques. WOW!!! that stuff is COOL!!!!!
I love the other missions and airframes but, I didn't want to hover down into a hot LZ and not be able to hurt the schmucks that were shootin at me. I also wanted to make things go BOOM! You don't get alot of ammo in the peace time army but, when you send missiles down range in the middle of the night and see the explosions, it's cool. Doing running and diving fire with rockets was my fave. The 30 mm was an extreme hoot also. When practicing firing it on or off axis with live rounds (exploding) I came to feel that I could honestly protect my CPG very well in most situations.

I flew the 'A' model Apache and absolutely enjoyed every flight (sans checkrides) but I have very good friends who flew the others and they had the same experience in their respective airframes.

Bottom line...

Work really hard in flight school because you will be on a two way live fire range some day- just the way things are. Don't be a hero. Do your job, nothing more, nothing less. Not trying to be 'over the top', it's the truth in this day and age.

With respect to what aircraft you fly, look around, pick one but realize this, and I promise you'll hear it again....
"Whatever AQC you end up in,make the most of it. Each airframe has it's benefits and problems."
The sorriest guys I saw were the ones that always whined about what airframe they wound up with. They are not part of the team and that is a fate worse than death.

Also,

It's not so much about the physical aircraft you fly... It's more about the guys and girls you fly with and for. Remember that more than anything. It will make sense in three or four years. Trust me. It's the PEOPLE, not the machines that keep me up till the wee hours of the morning.

Good Luck Brother.... work hard. The people on the ground will expect it!
AND THEY DESERVE IT!!!


Hobbit

P.S. Read 'On Killing' by Dave Grossman

 

[wannabearmy]

Great Advice everybody, I'd be honored to be able to serve next to any one of you. And maybe someday buy ya'll a round! What kind of a wait can I expect to get the final decision from Rucker after my state board this week? Thanks again - everybody.

 

[Ollie]

If I recall correctly, USAARL handles waivers. Their site. Have your recruiter contact the POC there and see if you can get a time frame for how long it will take for your waiver to go through.

 

[Nipsedaiser]

Good luck to ya Wanna.....wish I had some sage advice and/or info for ya-went thru my board in 1986 so I doubt I'd be the best resource. Just wanted to tell you to be prepared for the unexpected once you get thru the program. Army aviation can be fun but it definitely wasn't what I was expecting. Having said that, I did stay in a long time and recently hung up my spurs after 20 years combined active/reserve/guard service. If I can answer any questions from the UH-60 side of the house, let me know.

 

[wannabearmy]

Had my state board yesterday - It went awesome! I can't tell everybody here how much I appreciate their info and advice. From here I could know in as soon as 2 1/2 weeks if I get the final nod from Rucker. Nipsedaiser, I'd love to know your opinion on the UH-60s. What kinds of missions did you perform in your units? Thanks again everybody. By the way, if anybody has any tax questions, feel free to ask me. Free advice from a tax guy. It'd be nice to help some of you out.