Witness Sees Third Plane in ACC Shorts WI Mid-Air!

[CRJDispatchKid]

Is anyone particularly familiar with this cargo operation or aircraft? Does the Shorts have a CVR and FDR (DFDR)?

 

[FN FAL]

414,

whats your issue.. I asked a question regarding collision avoidance radar that larger aircraft have... I simply asked that if the 2 larger planes were on a collision avoidance course and a third target aircraft ( the smaller one) came into the warning zone of the avoiding aircraft, then how does the TA system handle it. would it tell one of the planes to turn again possibly causing a collision. Would it ignore the small plane.. just asking..

Do you have a problem ?

Midnight Brit
On ACARS 4 nights a week.

Don't sweat it Mark, 414 has some downed bros and he's probably not feeling the best about it right now. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[XTW]

whats your issue.. I asked a question regarding collision avoidance radar that larger aircraft have... I simply asked that if the 2 larger planes were on a collision avoidance course and a third target aircraft ( the smaller one) came into the warning zone of the avoiding aircraft, then how does the TA system handle it. would it tell one of the planes to turn again possibly causing a collision. Would it ignore the small plane.. just asking..
quote]



You are not helping youself with these questions. This belongs in the old "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous" category. Are you a licensed dispatcher or are you a know-nothing reporter trying to put your nose where it doesn't belong?:uzi:


X

 

[DiverDriver]

First off.... it's not "traffic radar". Radar stands for RAdio Detection And Ragning. You don't use radar on board for detecting traffic. We use TCAS which works off the transponders and even that sometimes doesn't see everything. And what system was or was not on these particular aircraft we'll just have to wait and see when the investigation progresses.

For now, we'll have to wait.

 

[SansPlane]

[Markm1811] whats your issue.. I asked a question regarding collision avoidance radar that larger aircraft have... I simply asked that if the 2 larger planes were on a collision avoidance course and a third target aircraft ( the smaller one) came into the warning zone of the avoiding aircraft, then how does the TA system handle it. would it tell one of the planes to turn again possibly causing a collision. Would it ignore the small plane.. just asking..
quote]



You are not helping youself with these questions. This belongs in the old "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous" category. Are you a licensed dispatcher or are you a know-nothing reporter trying to put your nose where it doesn't belong?:uzi:


X

Just how many conspiracy theorists frequent FI? What is wrong with being a reporter & where does a reporter’s nose belong? Correct me if I am wrong, but many of the discussions on this board hinge on the latest news? Duh! Do you really think a reporter is going to wait for input from one of the “EXPERTS” on this board to file a story? Continue watching for the men in black suits and them UFO’s that the government is using to spy on you. Did you hear that? Look around, they are watching you.

 

[XTW]

Continue watching for the men in black suits and them UFO’s that the government is using to spy on you. Did you hear that? Look around, they are watching you.

Don't be silly, they're the one's in the black helicopters!:nuts: For a poster posing as a dispatcher, Markm1811 is asking some uneducated questions, hence my sarcasm. Sorry it was lost on you.

X

 

[CRJDispatchKid]

As I haven't found any information about this company's equipment, I'll pose it here. Do the Shorts even have TCAS installed? I know the FAA mandated the system in late 1993 to be required on all commercial aircraft operating in US airspace, but I don't know the requirement for part 91/135 operations.



A little background on the TCAS system:
- Developed in the early 1980's, but not moved through legislation until a mid-air collision over LA in 1986.

- The principle of TCAS is to identify and track movement of aircraft that are equipped with transponders.

- There are three types of TCAS systems:
1.) TCAS I - Basic version, generally found in general aviation aircraft. Provides traffic advisories (TA) on a display and requires pilot input to avoid collision.

2.) TCAS II - This is what is found on commercial airliners. Provides TA's and resolution advisories (RA's). There are 2 types of RA's, positive and preventative. Preventative RA's don't require a change in altitude to avoid conflict. A positive RA requires a pilot input to climb or descend at a predetermined rate (I believe 2500 ft/min) to avoid a conflict. If both aircraft have TCAS II (mode-s transpoder) then the units will "talk" to one another and issues RA's that will not conflict with one another.

3.) TCAS III - Gives the same as TCAS II, but also provides lateral deviation instructions.

I did a paper on the subject of traffic collision avoidance in college. I guess I remembered a little of it. Maybe it will answer some questions for people. Outtie.

 

[cherry20's]

Or course they don't have TCAS

Do you think any of the smaller freight dogs have TCAS? Not that I have ever heard. Hopefully the crash was not the ACC pilots fault. I can see a VFR pilot cruising around, not paying attention like he should be, and causing the Shorts to hit each other. I just hope my friend that died in the crash didn't suffer in the aftermath.

Remember guys, People did just die in this incident. Lets let the NTSB do there jobs and pray for there friends and families involved.

 

[sky37d]

I'm sorry, I missed it. Were they flying in formation??
That is dangerous, no matter what you do.

http://www.337skymaster.org/messages/attachment.php?s=&postid=9737

 

[luvz2fli]

I'm sorry, I missed it. Were they flying in formation??
That is dangerous, no matter what you do.

http://www.337skymaster.org/messages/attachment.php?s=&postid=9737

Yes they were flying formation. Yes it is dangerous but being a pilot, I'm sure most all of you have done it before.

And everyone, please remember that people did die here. We do not need any stupid or negative remarks to be made about the pilots involved. I had a good friend involved and I personally do not appreciate it.

 

[Say Again Over]

Presuming that the larger planes had anti collision radar. by Markm1811

Isn't that on the new Lincoln Town car?

 

[luvz2fli]

Yes they do have TCAS, but obviously it was turned off. Having it on with the other shorts so close would be stupid though since it would be going off repeatedly.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/_content/news/topstories/story_1398.asp
Another video

 

[ReportCanoa]

What they saw, was the wing falling off one of the airplanes. ANd I thought I had it bad...

 

[planejockey]

I hope that the guys out there making dumb comments and speculating about the accident come to a realization that these men were doing our nation service. As an American please pay your respects to all that were involved trying to preserve our right to live free. I have a friend who is involved and I am greatly appreciative what he has put towards our nation. BTW formation flying or not flying is a risk every time you fly; hell ridding your bicycle is a risk. Those guys are professionals, so please give them the utmost respect and let the NTSB and the FAA figure it out.

 

[sky37d]

No negative comments from me.
In fact, the link I posted is a picture of me, on the left as you view it, doing a formation take off. I realize well and true what the dangers are. I do it quite enough.
I am truly saddened whenever an aviaition tragedy strikes, not only for the loss of life, but for the impact on the survivors.
All of us have lost someone close to us, or you will. Treasure the moments and memories amongst the living. Remember fondly those who are not with us. Speak well of those who are gone, or not at all.