"With you"

[A Squared]

When jets first came out, pilots were make evasive moves thinking they were head on.

I think that there was at least one mid-air, or a very near mid-air, (details escape me) where an airliner pulled up to the altitude of opposite direction traffic, because it appeared that it was at the same altitude. in reality, it was 1000 ft above and the evasive action caused the conflict.

 

[mtrv]

I finally learned where I picked up "with you" from ... MS Flight Sim 2004. It's what other a/c checking in with center say, or what your co-pilot says when calling ATC for you.

I'll add this to the list of things that MS FS has taught me, including ...
1) Who needs rudder?

7) 172's have incredible climb performance!

All the better models could at least use rudder pedals, unless the auto-rudder box is checked, and FS2004 Cessna 172's are just as gutless as the real ones.

Don't know if I've ever heard "with you" within the sim, but will pay attention next time. Personally, I hate the phrase.

 

[32LT10]

"Decimal" is used because the rest of the world uses it as an ICAO SARP, plus it is required in the AIPs (FARs) in most countries.

I know I am going to hear from FN FAL "who gives a F about ICAO," but if you fly outside the Americas you will be chastised on the radio for not saying "decimal" and you will then look very unprofessional.

This is why you hear "decimal" in the U.S. because it is the standard phraseology just about everywhere else.

Ducking, incoming........:uzi:

But it is the ability to adapt to the worlds different verbiage that makes it neccessary to drop the decimal if you are not required to. You go outside the US and they say "taxi to the holding point", " line up and wait" and some other words we don't use in the us. I can adapt to those phraseology methods and do not reply, "taxi to rwy XX" or "position and hold".

If I have a gear to grind on radio procedures it would be the RJ drivers that seem to take the ability to mumble on the radio to a new level. Skywest at ORD is a huge problem with mumbling and if not mr. mumbles you get the RJ guy that talks as if he still has his spurs on and feet on the glareshield. I don't care how kewl you think you are flying an RJ, use proper radio technique. This is an ATC communication platform and not American Idol. Talk like you are a professional and people will respect you as a professional.

I think this applies to cursing also. Heard a couple of RJ guys eating lunch recently and there were enoughs F-bombs scattered amongst them to make a sailor blush. All this within earshot of the others eating. Not to mention that the uniform was looking very "uniform" on them. This is not like you are on a summer intern job at a city park.

 

[hoop]

Here's another. When at the flight levels and center points out traffic, he doesn't really care if you have it in sight or not so don't call back 90 seconds later saying you have the traffic in sight. It's just a courtesy call on their part so you won't be alarmed at the sight of oncoming traffic.

OK, silly question time........

I assume your just talking about the big boys here.... What about little private pilot hoop in class C requesting basic radar service? Even if I never see it, they usually respond with "not a factor"...... So I should just say thanks and keep an eye out?

 

[wt219200]

-- thread hijack in progress --
I'm not bashing the thread starter or anyone else, this is just an observation.

This topic recurs almost as often as the following:
1. I've got 250 hours and want to skip instructing, where can I go?
2. Any info on Gulfstream Academy?
3. You cargo guys suck.
4. You regional guys suck.
5. Unions suck.
6. Non-union pilots suck.
7. My contract sucks.

and of course
8. Stop saying "checking in, with you, roger that, tally-ho, no joy, etc etc."

Maybe we should start a whole section just for frequently posted topics. 'Cause sometimes FI starts to remind me of Flight Training magazine: Come springtime, I guarantee we'll have articles on crosswind landings. Summer, time to talk about hot, high, and humid.

I'm with you this thread sucks. People have too much time on their hands, including myself apparently because I am responding to this crap.

 

[A Squared]

OK, silly question time........

I assume your just talking about the big boys here.... What about little private pilot hoop in class C requesting basic radar service? Even if I never see it, they usually respond with "not a factor"...... So I should just say thanks and keep an eye out?

Nope not a silly question at all. Mach80's post was incomplete at best. WHat he says is probably true enroute. In the terminal environment it is completely wrong. It's all in the context. In hte terminal environment, if you call the traffic in sight, that does a couple of things: If both targets are IFR, the controller may then be able to clear you to climb to your requested altitude "maintain visual seperation" whereas, if you *don't* have it in sight, he'll have to keep you at a lower altitude until minmum seperation is acheived. Or he may then clear you to follow hte traffic, cleared for the visual.....

If you are VFR but receiving radar service, you calling hte traffic in sight, may prevent him from having to give you an assigned heading or laltitude (more work for him) or he may vector the other aircraft, when he wouldn't have to if you had it in sight. In short, there are a number of different ways that kowing you have the traffic in sight makes his, and sometimes your life easier.
Sure enroute, if it's "opposite direction traffic at 12 and 9 miles, level XXXX (1000 ft or more form your altitude) ,it's a courtesy call. If you're talking to approach, it probably isn't

 

[hoop]

Thanks for the clarification, A Squared.

 

[Hold West]

"Decimal" is used because the rest of the world uses it as an ICAO SARP, plus it is required in the AIPs (FARs) in most countries.

I know I am going to hear from FN FAL "who gives a F about ICAO," but if you fly outside the Americas you will be chastised on the radio for not saying "decimal" and you will then look very unprofessional.

This is why you hear "decimal" in the U.S. because it is the standard phraseology just about everywhere else.

Ducking, incoming........:uzi:

I work at the "Crossroads of the Pacific", and we get pilots from all over flying through. They like to say decimal at times, and might even (gasp!) request "QNH". All part of the game, no big deal - gotta be flexible. "With you" or "checking in", kind of a waste, but not worth getting any adrenalin running over. "AAAnnnnnd...." I think is kind of a verbal placeholder, brain is not yet engaged, or is engaged doing something else - "Airplane 123 , descend and maintain FL240". "AAaaaannnnd (while putting coffee down, spinning altitude alerter knob to 240) Airplane 123, down to FL240". I've done it: "Airliner 123, the Podunk altimeter iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssss.... (oops, info display is on the wrong page, where's the podunk altimeter... there!) ...30.01". Could be planned better, but we are still human.

The only time I REALLY HATE "with you" or "checking in" is when someone I have not been talking to is calling out of the blue to request some service. "Center, Cherokee 13579 with you." The leaves me looking for some Cherokee I should be expecting, but I don't know about, generating a long pause while I figure out if I should know you. Crisp and to the point is the name of the game:

"Center, Cherokee 13579 4 west of Podunk, request radar advisories to Broken Buffalo."

"Center, Cherokee 13579 just departed Tedium, requesting IFR clearance to Apathy."

Checking in with altitude - yes, do it please, either level or altitude leaving and assigned:

2. The following phraseology should be utilized by pilots for establishing contact with the designated facility:​

(a) When operating in a radar environment: On initial contact, the pilot should inform the controller of the aircraft's assigned altitude preceded by the words "level," or "climbing to," or "descending to," as appropriate; and the aircraft's present vacating altitude, if applicable.​

EXAMPLE-
1. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEVEL (altitude or flight level).
2. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEAVING (exact altitude or flight level), CLIMBING TO OR DESCENDING TO (altitude of flight level).


It acts as a verbal reminder and is really good for my own SA, probably everyone else's, too. I looked for the part about verifying Mode C on initial contact with departure in the AIM, but couldn't spot it, here's my book:

5-2-17. VALIDATION OF MODE C READOUT​

Ensure that Mode C altitude readouts are valid after accepting an interfacility handoff, initial track start, track start from coast/suspend tabular list, missing, or unreasonable Mode C readouts.

and

a. Consider an altitude readout valid when:

​

1. It varies less than 300 feet from the pilot reported altitude...

This is indeed a regular topic, even though I haen't been on here that long!









​

 

[navigator72]

.......

ABC Approach N54321 check'n in @ 90,000'

 

[Ravendriver]

Hold West, thanks, I am with you on this.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

actually, you only have to check in with your altitude once per artcc. once they verify it on the initial check in, they don't need it anyomore.

something from our resident controller...
(Thanks for the reference HW)

Checking in with altitude - yes, do it please, either level or altitude leaving and assigned:

2. The following phraseology should be utilized by pilots for establishing contact with the designated facility:
(a) When operating in a radar environment: On initial contact, the pilot should inform the controller of the aircraft's assigned altitude preceded by the words "level," or "climbing to," or "descending to," as appropriate; and the aircraft's present vacating altitude, if applicable.
EXAMPLE-
1. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEVEL (altitude or flight level).
2. (Name) CENTER, (aircraft identification), LEAVING (exact altitude or flight level), CLIMBING TO OR DESCENDING TO (altitude of flight level).​

It acts as a verbal reminder and is really good for my own SA, probably everyone else's, too. I looked for the part about verifying Mode C on initial contact with departure in the AIM, but couldn't spot it, here's my book:​

5-2-17. VALIDATION OF MODE C READOUT​

Ensure that Mode C altitude readouts are valid after accepting an interfacility handoff, initial track start, track start from coast/suspend tabular list, missing, or unreasonable Mode C readouts.

and

a. Consider an altitude readout valid when:​

1. It varies less than 300 feet from the pilot reported altitude...​

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Stumbling onto this thread is like walking into a filthy men's restroom at an isolated highway rest stop, and finding 5 guys in trench coats facing each other in a small circle. uke:


you may proceed, bye

 

[Photoflight]

A few of you guys in here really gotta go rent some hookers are somthing....losen up and don't be gay.

 

[unreal]

Here's a tip -- no need to ever tell a controller that you are "with him" as he knows that by the fact you are talking to him. It sounds so student pilotish to hear it.

I've always had the belief that the confidence (or lack thereof) you show on the radio is what gives a radio call an experienced/inexperienced quality. Saying something non-standard like "with you" in a confident manner is much different than stammering out "with you" trying to sound like a pro. The latter is the one that sounds "student pilotish" in my opinion, regardless of what was said.

Just to add: I'm known to say "good morning" or "good evening" on the radio during initial call when it's not horribly busy. Sure it's not in the AIM, but just like "with you," it's not a big deal. Not reading back hold short clearances, now that's a big deal.

 

[Hold West]

Stumbling onto this thread is like walking into a filthy men's restroom at an isolated highway rest stop, and finding 5 guys in trench coats facing each other in a small circle.

Easy there, big fella - your fantasies are taking control of you. Go take your valium now, there's a good boy.

 

[macfly]

its crap like this that gives moderate credence that all pilots are anal duche bags.

have a drink and get laid.

I - i need a drink
M- me
S- ex would be nice
A- asshat
F- freak
E- Enit no thang to get my pressure up over.

 

[frog_flyer]

i dont mind any of the sayings and what not.

what pisses me off is jack offs on uncontrolled airport freqs talking about whats for dinner. reminds me of that vince carter commercial when the news is trying to interview him

 

[WabiSabi]

something from our resident controller...
(Thanks for the reference HW)

Yes, things work better when you check in with your altitude with each frequency change. However, technically, checking in with your altitude is not necessary within the same ARTCC after the initial call. Sometimes you might hear; "Walla Walla center, Wombat 977 climbing to three five zero" even though they might be climbing through FL330. This is perfectly acceptable.

 

[idoitupsidedown]

"Indy Center, FreightDawg 123, same ole' ****, different night" [continues working sudoku]

"FreightDawg123, Indy Center...yup" [continues reading book]

 

[g4800xp]

Adding decimil or point is useful on some oceanic flights, some controllers may work both hf and vhf, so N12345 on 13200 is different then 132.00, along those lines some guys call OAK center/SFO radio in nopac and just say N12345 on 89- but there are 2 89s there, 8915 and 8951,this happens all over in hf areas, some guys give their life story and others stop short of what is usefull, it still works but why not fire it off as the pilot-controller glossary states when able. My boss pays me to be a professional, I do my best, but I am only human.
The one that gets me is in read backs,,,, N12345 out of
3904290, the number 4 has no place here, bad bad bad, how about N12345 flightlevel 390-decending- to level-290. Remember any number 360 or below has two uses, heading and or altitude.
Last is 2 , it can be a number, or where you are going or intending to go. Direct or cleared work well.
Now while I am at it, everyone is trying to sort out how to reduce runway incursions and taxi mistakes. I think controllers forget that their "life" is revolving around a piece of realestate that they know better that anybody on the planet, every inch, but they sometimes forget we may frequent dozens and dozens of airports, so , N12345 taxi to spot 23bravo via Delta-Echo cross 24right and hold short of 24left at foxtrot contact ground on 123.45, while it makes perfect sense to them, not always to us, besides if I just landed I may still have my eyes closed and and may still be holding my f/os hand and working my rosary beads, so I am not ready for such a clerance.