Why Signature ???

[NJAowner]

Signature

I know I will get flamed, but it isn't about the pilots opinion or the price of fuel. NJA uses signature in most locations because it usually (not always) has the nicest facilities for the passengers. In the few places I have been (and not as many as most of you), where Signature has a suckky FBO, the others are usually more rundown, shabby, older bathrooms, no conference facilities, etc. As 757 BBJ said above, NJA wants to provide some familiarity for its owners. And Signature is usually the nicest facility at the FBO (in most cases -- I know many are better). Becuase of volume, NJA will not get hosed like the little guys and, therefore, at the same price (or less because of the bulk of buying over many airports) the penultimate question is: If Signature cost less than the competitor, would you feel the same way? That is the NJA perspective (I think). Even if it cost $200 more per flight, if the ladies room was cleaner, it is worth it from the NJA perspective. Please do not flame me, I do understand how the rest of you feel.


Fly safe.

 

[Daveman]

From the passenger perspective, they like Signature for their aura of familiarity. It brings somewhat of a consistency in numerous FBO's which reduces the anxiety for some owner/passengers. I know, I know.

Mr. NJAowner, This guy's quote above hit's the nail on the head. But as pilots, we look for the best service on "our" side as well. Costs including fuel,ramp, handling and such. Part of our job is to look out for our employer.
I do understand the situation, passengers enjoy the interior, pilots loathe the exterior. I'm not knocking either side, But I know Signature is making some cash.

 

[darkvw]

you might want to try HFY instead of IND if your plane fits, nice FBO and fuel prices, not associated with the airport , just a nice facility.

 

[murfdawg998]

KLAS is definitely one of the worst

 

[SpeedMetal]

MIA Signature is the worst i have been to. we stay as far away from Sigs as possible.

Can you say "union workers" just enough to get the job done, and sometimes not that much

 

[350DRIVER]

I know I will get flamed, but it isn't about the pilots opinion or the price of fuel. NJA uses signature in most locations because it usually (not always) has the nicest facilities for the passengers. In the few places I have been (and not as many as most of you), where Signature has a suckky FBO, the others are usually more rundown, shabby, older bathrooms, no conference facilities, etc. As 757 BBJ said above, NJA wants to provide some familiarity for its owners. And Signature is usually the nicest facility at the FBO (in most cases -- I know many are better). Becuase of volume, NJA will not get hosed like the little guys and, therefore, at the same price (or less because of the bulk of buying over many airports) the penultimate question is: If Signature cost less than the competitor, would you feel the same way? That is the NJA perspective (I think). Even if it cost $200 more per flight, if the ladies room was cleaner, it is worth it from the NJA perspective. Please do not flame me, I do understand how the rest of you feel. Fly safe.

I would always use a Signature whenever I had that option and all pax were thankful/happy/pleased due to the facilities, customer service, etc. The service fee, fuel, handling fees, etc, were all viewed as chump change since in reality when pax are paying close to $1800+ per flight hour (some more) for the aircraft these fees were not even questioned nor did anyone really care. The bottom line is that few other fbos' matched the quality, service, etc, that Signature has. Jet Aviation at TEB was one of the few that could match Signature in most areas. I have never had a single bad experience with any Signature in fact most of the corporate/charter folks that I am friendly with pretty much share my exact same thoughts. Some of this "my Falcon can't be #1 on the line due to all the NetJets coming/going", blah, blah, isn't that important is it?. A three aircraft flight department is bringing in "peanuts" for them when compared to the revenue that NetJets creates for them, look at the whole picture here before you go blasting a company that continues to provide very good service due to a chip on the owner's shoulder. You don't like em, don't use em- relatively simple and elementary that requires no thought... I don't think you are going to effect their bottom line.

Even on the DO-328 jet corporate side of things, number 1 on the line wasn't even a concern nor did pax need to be "seen" getting off the equipment.

Good reply NJAowner, most all of the pax/owners that I have flown in previous years share your very same thoughts and opinions. In fact I never heard one negative comment from anyone, all were positive for the obvious reasons.

 

[Diesel]

funny i thought signature treats netjets worse because we never know when we're coming or leaving. Plus they know we have to go there so there is no incentive for them to work any harder to keep our buisness.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Back in the mid-90s I was flying a charter MD-87. We usually used gate facilities at the terminal but the fueler was whoever was cheaper on the field. At one airport in Iowa, I forget which one, there was a Signature and another. We used the other for fuel. One day I had something of a bad feeling about getting fuel there and just happened to fuel through this airport. Well, we show up and the Feds are there. Flew in special just to ramp check us. The first question out of their mouth after checking our certs was, "where is your fueling manual?". I'm like, "what fueling manual?" The Fed said, "well, if you are getting fuel from brand X you need to have a manual because they don't". Something along those lines anyway. So I look this guy in the eye and say, "we aren't getting any fuel here". He gets this real deflated look in his face and says, "oh, well nevermind". He proceeded to ask some more question and finally went away. I know that Signature was unhappy with us using brand X for fuel and can guarantee they called the Feds about this when they knew we were coming in. They must have known about what brand X was lacking in regards to certification and were looking to hang them and us at the same time. For that reason I will never use Signature.

TP

 

[Chicken Taco]

Signature is the king of nickel-and-dime tactics to run up the bill. On the charter side of our house (All the CHQ 9xx flight numbers) we currently have 3 dedicated aircraft, with additional lift as needed from the ones with airline paint.

We did a run to KLAS last month with 35 pax for a two-day stop, so most of them had bags in the cargo bin. When we hit the ramp, we were informed that if we wanted the ramp guys to unload the luggage, it would be $50 per bag, plus $250 for the use of the belt loader! They tried to charge a $1000 ramp/handling fee, since we were an "airline aircraft" rather than the standard large jet fee of $450 that would have been applicable to a similar size plane like a CL601 or a Legacy. Same for the lav service, overnight parking, etc. All was on the "airline" fee schedule until we were able to speak with the customer service manager and straighten it out. Oh, and we DID buy 1000 gallons of gas on top of that.

We had similar experiences with Signature DSM with a regular charter that runs there 4x a week, not quite as extortionist, but still bad. Plus, they refused to guarantee ramp space even though it was scheduled flights planned weeks ahead. We switched to Elliott aviation across the field, and couldn't be happier. No fees of any sort as long as we buy 500 gallons, they load and unload all of the luggage, and they always have a spot available for us, with the group's bus waiting right next to the red carpet. Oh, and free munchies for the crew, even though it's a quick turnaround and we don't get catering from them..

..CT

 

[bigD]

I fly little planes, but I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'd rather teabag my nuts in boiling hot oil than park my plane on a Signature ramp.

I hate them all. Interestingly, I'm seeing more and more Netjets guys at the Trajen in Austin.

 

[Flying Illini]

I would always use a Signature whenever I had that option and all pax were thankful/happy/pleased due to the facilities, customer service, etc. Some of this "my Falcon can't be #1 on the line due to all the NetJets coming/going", blah, blah, isn't that important is it?. A three aircraft flight department is bringing in "peanuts" for them when compared to the revenue that NetJets creates for them, look at the whole picture here before you go blasting a company that continues to provide very good service due to a chip on the owner's shoulder.
Even on the DO-328 jet corporate side of things, number 1 on the line wasn't even a concern nor did pax need to be "seen" getting off the equipment.

Isn't having an aircraft "on-line" as opposed to the back 40 considered Customer Service? And if you're going to park the aircraft out there and refuse to pull it up (even though the front several spots are open, you should have a van available to take the pax to the aircraft. That's called customer service.
Customer service would mean taking an equal approach to each and every aircraft that enters their ramp. I've been to other FBO's that will still park my little falcon right at the front door so that my pax can unload and be on his way with minimal time on the noisy ramp and out in the elements. That same FBO will have a tug hooked up within 3 minutes of us unloading so that they can tow us away to make room for that G5 that is on it's way in. They could have easily just parked us miles away and have driven out to pick us up but they understand what CUSTOMER SERVICE is. And you know what, service like that doesn't go unnoticed.
I don't expect #1 on-line, but I do expect to be within a short walk to the aircraft. My pax pays good money to fly his aircraft and it's our job to provide good service to him. We weren't recieving that service at some signatures and have since stopped going to them.

 

[bigD]

Illini is right on. Plenty of FBO's do just fine providing great customer service to everyone - not just the guys with the deepest pockets.

 

[350DRIVER]

Isn't having an aircraft "on-line" as opposed to the back 40 considered Customer Service? And if you're going to park the aircraft out there and refuse to pull it up (even though the front several spots are open, you should have a van available to take the pax to the aircraft. That's called customer service.
Customer service would mean taking an equal approach to each and every aircraft that enters their ramp. I've been to other FBO's that will still park my little falcon right at the front door so that my pax can unload and be on his way with minimal time on the noisy ramp and out in the elements. That same FBO will have a tug hooked up within 3 minutes of us unloading so that they can tow us away to make room for that G5 that is on it's way in. They could have easily just parked us miles away and have driven out to pick us up but they understand what CUSTOMER SERVICE is. And you know what, service like that doesn't go unnoticed.
I don't expect #1 on-line, but I do expect to be within a short walk to the aircraft. My pax pays good money to fly his aircraft and it's our job to provide good service to him. We weren't recieving that service at some signatures and have since stopped going to them.

Having the aircraft up on the first row, in front of the door, and a shiny little mat on the ground doesn't always happen in reality no matter what FBO you are using, possibly in a fantasy world. It isn't viewed as "customer service" when you have 75 other aircraft already there and more coming in. It is merely a courtesy that is extended and it is certainly not guaranteed. Try requesting being up front and close to the door at Signature in LAS, MEM, and other busy airports. I have never had any of your problems and have used Signature for years and to this day whenever I fly around in a friend's CJ we always will make certain to go into Signatures for the above reasons in my previous post. If you are (were) that unsatisfied then you should have spoken to a line supervisor and voiced your complaints, concerns, etc, service like that shouldn't go unnoticed since Signature prides itself on being top notch. Every time I ever had to be on the "back line" a van was waiting stby to take the pax to the terminal with no delay whatsoever. That same van was waiting stby to take all pax/crew back to the airplane when it was departure time, again with no delay whatsoever and I have used Signature for a long time.

Being a little cooperative and understanding goes a long way for all people involved considering how busy these places can get during the peak times of the business week.

Your pax pays good money just as all t h e other pax paying top dollar to charter or operate the equipment. He is no better than the many other people who wish/desire to be "close" within walking distance which sometimes does not always happen.

I cannot recall even just one complaint from any passenger(s) when we were stuck out in BFE having to use a van to get to the executive terminal.

A couple of minutes delay never killed anyone that I have ever come across on a Signature ramp.

 

[LR45JI]

I hate being up there with all the NJA guys.

I love you too - didn't realize I was that bad of a guy......

 

[English]

If you want to make a difference, post your comments at www.airnav.com. I know the Signature higher-ups read the stuff there, and they don't want any bad comments written about their service.