Why Signature ???

[Flechas]

Signature sucs, about a year ago I went to the one in JAX with a student, and when we got there the woman in the front desk looked at me and said, "Danm it, another little airplane, what do you want?"

I said I want you to bend over and....... J/K i got my free hot dog, 8 gals ov avgas and left!

 

[Bandit60]

Hilarious! We go in there 3-5 times a week, sometimes twice in one day. They know us so well and the CSR's usually take care of us but there are a few line personel that bite the big one.
The facility also sucks. That's why the company we fly for built us our own crew room at their corp. offices. We have a top floor, corner "exective" office. Cable TV, bathroom, wetbar, fridge, icemaker, coffee, all the free snacks and drinks we want, a couch, two NICE recliners, a conference table, a computer with high speed interenet and a wireless router, and a phone. It rocks. We just take a company car that is kept parked at DET and drive over there, we've got keys to the building and the room. They are working on getting us a DVD player, sometimes we will take Xbox or Playstation2 up there and play all day. It sure helps pass the time when you don't have to be at the airport. It's nice and quiet, there is no transient foot traffic (we have our own hallway), and it's only us two guys in the room. It's a sweet deal...wish we had that everywhere we flew.

If your company has to build you a special crew room that doens't say alot for the signature at kdet. They are the laziest bunch of worthless employees I have ever seen.
And the gun shots you hear from the ramp is just a plus to the situation.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Can I be your friend?

Hilarious! We go in there 3-5 times a week, sometimes twice in one day. They know us so well and the CSR's usually take care of us but there are a few line personel that bite the big one.
The facility also sucks. That's why the company we fly for built us our own crew room at their corp. offices. We have a top floor, corner "exective" office. Cable TV, bathroom, wetbar, fridge, icemaker, coffee, all the free snacks and drinks we want, a couch, two NICE recliners, a conference table, a computer with high speed interenet and a wireless router, and a phone. It rocks. We just take a company car that is kept parked at DET and drive over there, we've got keys to the building and the room. They are working on getting us a DVD player, sometimes we will take Xbox or Playstation2 up there and play all day. It sure helps pass the time when you don't have to be at the airport. It's nice and quiet, there is no transient foot traffic (we have our own hallway), and it's only us two guys in the room. It's a sweet deal...wish we had that everywhere we flew.

...and I won't even complain about not having N64!

 

[beernuts]

It's because W. Buffett owns both of them. He's building up quite a monopoly on business level general aviation.

 

[757BBJ_Capt]

It's because W. Buffett owns both of them. He's building up quite a monopoly on business level general aviation.

Negative! That must be one of those rumors that pilots hear and then take it to be the truth without doing their own homework. Buffett or Berkshire Hathaway does NOT own Signature or any part of it. Signature is owned by BBA Group PLC, which is Brittish. Buffett's only GA holdings are NJA, NJI, and FSI. He also owns insurance companies, but they do more than aviation insurance. He madea vast majority of his initial wealt in the insurance business. When I am ready to unload that ocean front land I am sitting on in Arizona I now know where to advertise it for sale.

 

[guido411]

Still wondering if any Floppers have used the alternate MMU facility and have any comments. From reading the email sent by the company it sounds like a cluster
f()ck.

 

[NJA Capt]

... the woman in the front desk looked at me and said, "Danm it, another little airplane, what do you want?"

That's when you say, "Well, I was wondering if you had hangar space for the GV I'm bringing in next week, I guess we'll just tanker fuel when we come through."

We were at an FBO last week (not Signature) and they said we needed to buy 400 gallons to waive the ramp fee ($400). 400 gallons @ $4.00/gallon or $400 bucks. Give me a break. With logic like that, I don't know how they sell ANY fuel.

PS....Signature DET is the worst FBO period.......Signature or not.

 

[Flying Illini]

We've been going up there (KDET) for several years now and we just recently got "our room" at the corp. offices. We have spent waaaaayyy too much time hanging around at that SIG facility. I even figured out how to get up into that old tower cab!
I am in no way defending the SIG at DET. It is a hole and most of the folks that work there are as well. BUT I will say that Linda (CSR) has always taken good care of us (but I'm sure this is because we have spent sooo much time up there. She knows all of us by name and has even lent us her car once upon a time.). We asked when SIG was going to put some money into the facility. They said that it wasn't going to happen until the city of DET gave that SIG more than a year-long lease.
We'll see.
I'm just glad we don't have to hang out there anymore and I feel sorry for all those that have to.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

On a positive note...

Signature used to let us use the courtesy car during the day at KYIP, eventhough my company didn't buy gas there (P31-310) operator. And we ate the popcorn and used the weather computers, etc. They were always accomodating when able.

At KBWI, you need a sponsor to buy an employee parking pass. After having a pass every year since 1989, I could not even buy one for the $450.

I went to the manager at signature to ask for sponsorship, since I used to fly corporate there and pick up clients. He offered to let me park in the signature lot for free.

Yeah, they are big and expensive and service can be lacking at times, but they have been nice to me.

Jeff

 

[hawkerflyer]

Kord, Ksfo

 

[NJAowner]

Signature

I know I will get flamed, but it isn't about the pilots opinion or the price of fuel. NJA uses signature in most locations because it usually (not always) has the nicest facilities for the passengers. In the few places I have been (and not as many as most of you), where Signature has a suckky FBO, the others are usually more rundown, shabby, older bathrooms, no conference facilities, etc. As 757 BBJ said above, NJA wants to provide some familiarity for its owners. And Signature is usually the nicest facility at the FBO (in most cases -- I know many are better). Becuase of volume, NJA will not get hosed like the little guys and, therefore, at the same price (or less because of the bulk of buying over many airports) the penultimate question is: If Signature cost less than the competitor, would you feel the same way? That is the NJA perspective (I think). Even if it cost $200 more per flight, if the ladies room was cleaner, it is worth it from the NJA perspective. Please do not flame me, I do understand how the rest of you feel.


Fly safe.

 

[Daveman]

From the passenger perspective, they like Signature for their aura of familiarity. It brings somewhat of a consistency in numerous FBO's which reduces the anxiety for some owner/passengers. I know, I know.

Mr. NJAowner, This guy's quote above hit's the nail on the head. But as pilots, we look for the best service on "our" side as well. Costs including fuel,ramp, handling and such. Part of our job is to look out for our employer.
I do understand the situation, passengers enjoy the interior, pilots loathe the exterior. I'm not knocking either side, But I know Signature is making some cash.

 

[darkvw]

you might want to try HFY instead of IND if your plane fits, nice FBO and fuel prices, not associated with the airport , just a nice facility.

 

[murfdawg998]

KLAS is definitely one of the worst

 

[SpeedMetal]

MIA Signature is the worst i have been to. we stay as far away from Sigs as possible.

Can you say "union workers" just enough to get the job done, and sometimes not that much

 

[350DRIVER]

I know I will get flamed, but it isn't about the pilots opinion or the price of fuel. NJA uses signature in most locations because it usually (not always) has the nicest facilities for the passengers. In the few places I have been (and not as many as most of you), where Signature has a suckky FBO, the others are usually more rundown, shabby, older bathrooms, no conference facilities, etc. As 757 BBJ said above, NJA wants to provide some familiarity for its owners. And Signature is usually the nicest facility at the FBO (in most cases -- I know many are better). Becuase of volume, NJA will not get hosed like the little guys and, therefore, at the same price (or less because of the bulk of buying over many airports) the penultimate question is: If Signature cost less than the competitor, would you feel the same way? That is the NJA perspective (I think). Even if it cost $200 more per flight, if the ladies room was cleaner, it is worth it from the NJA perspective. Please do not flame me, I do understand how the rest of you feel. Fly safe.

I would always use a Signature whenever I had that option and all pax were thankful/happy/pleased due to the facilities, customer service, etc. The service fee, fuel, handling fees, etc, were all viewed as chump change since in reality when pax are paying close to $1800+ per flight hour (some more) for the aircraft these fees were not even questioned nor did anyone really care. The bottom line is that few other fbos' matched the quality, service, etc, that Signature has. Jet Aviation at TEB was one of the few that could match Signature in most areas. I have never had a single bad experience with any Signature in fact most of the corporate/charter folks that I am friendly with pretty much share my exact same thoughts. Some of this "my Falcon can't be #1 on the line due to all the NetJets coming/going", blah, blah, isn't that important is it?. A three aircraft flight department is bringing in "peanuts" for them when compared to the revenue that NetJets creates for them, look at the whole picture here before you go blasting a company that continues to provide very good service due to a chip on the owner's shoulder. You don't like em, don't use em- relatively simple and elementary that requires no thought... I don't think you are going to effect their bottom line.

Even on the DO-328 jet corporate side of things, number 1 on the line wasn't even a concern nor did pax need to be "seen" getting off the equipment.

Good reply NJAowner, most all of the pax/owners that I have flown in previous years share your very same thoughts and opinions. In fact I never heard one negative comment from anyone, all were positive for the obvious reasons.

 

[Diesel]

funny i thought signature treats netjets worse because we never know when we're coming or leaving. Plus they know we have to go there so there is no incentive for them to work any harder to keep our buisness.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Back in the mid-90s I was flying a charter MD-87. We usually used gate facilities at the terminal but the fueler was whoever was cheaper on the field. At one airport in Iowa, I forget which one, there was a Signature and another. We used the other for fuel. One day I had something of a bad feeling about getting fuel there and just happened to fuel through this airport. Well, we show up and the Feds are there. Flew in special just to ramp check us. The first question out of their mouth after checking our certs was, "where is your fueling manual?". I'm like, "what fueling manual?" The Fed said, "well, if you are getting fuel from brand X you need to have a manual because they don't". Something along those lines anyway. So I look this guy in the eye and say, "we aren't getting any fuel here". He gets this real deflated look in his face and says, "oh, well nevermind". He proceeded to ask some more question and finally went away. I know that Signature was unhappy with us using brand X for fuel and can guarantee they called the Feds about this when they knew we were coming in. They must have known about what brand X was lacking in regards to certification and were looking to hang them and us at the same time. For that reason I will never use Signature.

TP

 

[Chicken Taco]

Signature is the king of nickel-and-dime tactics to run up the bill. On the charter side of our house (All the CHQ 9xx flight numbers) we currently have 3 dedicated aircraft, with additional lift as needed from the ones with airline paint.

We did a run to KLAS last month with 35 pax for a two-day stop, so most of them had bags in the cargo bin. When we hit the ramp, we were informed that if we wanted the ramp guys to unload the luggage, it would be $50 per bag, plus $250 for the use of the belt loader! They tried to charge a $1000 ramp/handling fee, since we were an "airline aircraft" rather than the standard large jet fee of $450 that would have been applicable to a similar size plane like a CL601 or a Legacy. Same for the lav service, overnight parking, etc. All was on the "airline" fee schedule until we were able to speak with the customer service manager and straighten it out. Oh, and we DID buy 1000 gallons of gas on top of that.

We had similar experiences with Signature DSM with a regular charter that runs there 4x a week, not quite as extortionist, but still bad. Plus, they refused to guarantee ramp space even though it was scheduled flights planned weeks ahead. We switched to Elliott aviation across the field, and couldn't be happier. No fees of any sort as long as we buy 500 gallons, they load and unload all of the luggage, and they always have a spot available for us, with the group's bus waiting right next to the red carpet. Oh, and free munchies for the crew, even though it's a quick turnaround and we don't get catering from them..

..CT

 

[bigD]

I fly little planes, but I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'd rather teabag my nuts in boiling hot oil than park my plane on a Signature ramp.

I hate them all. Interestingly, I'm seeing more and more Netjets guys at the Trajen in Austin.