Why Signature ???

[Flying Illini]

I would always use a Signature whenever I had that option and all pax were thankful/happy/pleased due to the facilities, customer service, etc. Some of this "my Falcon can't be #1 on the line due to all the NetJets coming/going", blah, blah, isn't that important is it?. A three aircraft flight department is bringing in "peanuts" for them when compared to the revenue that NetJets creates for them, look at the whole picture here before you go blasting a company that continues to provide very good service due to a chip on the owner's shoulder.
Even on the DO-328 jet corporate side of things, number 1 on the line wasn't even a concern nor did pax need to be "seen" getting off the equipment.

Isn't having an aircraft "on-line" as opposed to the back 40 considered Customer Service? And if you're going to park the aircraft out there and refuse to pull it up (even though the front several spots are open, you should have a van available to take the pax to the aircraft. That's called customer service.
Customer service would mean taking an equal approach to each and every aircraft that enters their ramp. I've been to other FBO's that will still park my little falcon right at the front door so that my pax can unload and be on his way with minimal time on the noisy ramp and out in the elements. That same FBO will have a tug hooked up within 3 minutes of us unloading so that they can tow us away to make room for that G5 that is on it's way in. They could have easily just parked us miles away and have driven out to pick us up but they understand what CUSTOMER SERVICE is. And you know what, service like that doesn't go unnoticed.
I don't expect #1 on-line, but I do expect to be within a short walk to the aircraft. My pax pays good money to fly his aircraft and it's our job to provide good service to him. We weren't recieving that service at some signatures and have since stopped going to them.

 

[bigD]

Illini is right on. Plenty of FBO's do just fine providing great customer service to everyone - not just the guys with the deepest pockets.

 

[350DRIVER]

Isn't having an aircraft "on-line" as opposed to the back 40 considered Customer Service? And if you're going to park the aircraft out there and refuse to pull it up (even though the front several spots are open, you should have a van available to take the pax to the aircraft. That's called customer service.
Customer service would mean taking an equal approach to each and every aircraft that enters their ramp. I've been to other FBO's that will still park my little falcon right at the front door so that my pax can unload and be on his way with minimal time on the noisy ramp and out in the elements. That same FBO will have a tug hooked up within 3 minutes of us unloading so that they can tow us away to make room for that G5 that is on it's way in. They could have easily just parked us miles away and have driven out to pick us up but they understand what CUSTOMER SERVICE is. And you know what, service like that doesn't go unnoticed.
I don't expect #1 on-line, but I do expect to be within a short walk to the aircraft. My pax pays good money to fly his aircraft and it's our job to provide good service to him. We weren't recieving that service at some signatures and have since stopped going to them.

Having the aircraft up on the first row, in front of the door, and a shiny little mat on the ground doesn't always happen in reality no matter what FBO you are using, possibly in a fantasy world. It isn't viewed as "customer service" when you have 75 other aircraft already there and more coming in. It is merely a courtesy that is extended and it is certainly not guaranteed. Try requesting being up front and close to the door at Signature in LAS, MEM, and other busy airports. I have never had any of your problems and have used Signature for years and to this day whenever I fly around in a friend's CJ we always will make certain to go into Signatures for the above reasons in my previous post. If you are (were) that unsatisfied then you should have spoken to a line supervisor and voiced your complaints, concerns, etc, service like that shouldn't go unnoticed since Signature prides itself on being top notch. Every time I ever had to be on the "back line" a van was waiting stby to take the pax to the terminal with no delay whatsoever. That same van was waiting stby to take all pax/crew back to the airplane when it was departure time, again with no delay whatsoever and I have used Signature for a long time.

Being a little cooperative and understanding goes a long way for all people involved considering how busy these places can get during the peak times of the business week.

Your pax pays good money just as all t h e other pax paying top dollar to charter or operate the equipment. He is no better than the many other people who wish/desire to be "close" within walking distance which sometimes does not always happen.

I cannot recall even just one complaint from any passenger(s) when we were stuck out in BFE having to use a van to get to the executive terminal.

A couple of minutes delay never killed anyone that I have ever come across on a Signature ramp.

 

[LR45JI]

I hate being up there with all the NJA guys.

I love you too - didn't realize I was that bad of a guy......

 

[English]

If you want to make a difference, post your comments at www.airnav.com. I know the Signature higher-ups read the stuff there, and they don't want any bad comments written about their service.

 

[757BBJ_Capt]

A couple of minutes delay never killed anyone that I have ever come across on a Signature ramp.

That's the whole point here. A couple of minutes delay sound like nothing, but the fact that Mr. GotBucks has spent X amount of millions of dollars on his own corporate transportation (or the company's) is to eliminate that "couple" of minutes delay. The delay might not bother you, but you have no idea if it truly bothers the boss or not. If you just ASSUME it does not and it's something he can live with, then you are not doing your job.

You can be the "Signature Apoligist" all day long, but they have some nickle and diming issues that until worked out, are going to cause a lot of pilots and passengers to avoid their FBOs. Why is their fuel ALWAYS much higher that anyone else's fuel on the field? Why don't they have an 800#. WHy do we pay handling fees? Why do they take it personally when you dont buy fuel? Why don't they let everyone know they are foreign owned? Why do professional pilots have such a distain for Signatures? They ALL didn't just make these stories up.

 

[350DRIVER]

That's the whole point here. A couple of minutes delay sound like nothing, but the fact that Mr. GotBucks has spent X amount of millions of dollars on his own corporate transportation (or the company's) is to eliminate that "couple" of minutes delay. The delay might not bother you, but you have no idea if it truly bothers the boss or not. If you just ASSUME it does not and it's something he can live with, then you are not doing your job.

You can be the "Signature Apoligist" all day long, but they have some nickle and diming issues that until worked out, are going to cause a lot of pilots and passengers to avoid their FBOs. Why is their fuel ALWAYS much higher that anyone else's fuel on the field? Why don't they have an 800#. WHy do we pay handling fees? Why do they take it personally when you dont buy fuel? Why don't they let everyone know they are foreign owned? Why do professional pilots have such a distain for Signatures? They ALL didn't just make these stories up.

The question is not whether or not the delay bothers me, one learns to be a little understanding given the circumstances . Most of the passengers understand and realize this can and will take place depending on the time of the day. Was I happy sitting in traffic for 4 hours on an LA freeway last week?. I think not but one comes to accept it. I am not sure I am a "Signature Apoligist", I am merely a satisfied customer that has been pleased with all service I have ever gotten while frequenting Signature. Your guess is as good as mine on the other questions that you have raised. It is either a love or hate relationship with Signature. If for any reason(s) you are not satisfied then by all means one should write a formal complaint or make a phone call. It seems that many of the senior level management does take feedback seriously. Whenever I have ever placed a written suggestion in the box or praised a Signature employee for outstanding service I have usually received a follow up phone call by a management person. It would appear that they monitor their day to day operations somewhat closely.

 

[757BBJ_Capt]

Thanks for writing back. I guess my issue is the consistant leack of service I feel Signature fails to provide. For the price of thier fuel, that place should be 1st class, and I just do not believe that they are. I'll pay that higher fuel price to offset the 800# that they have, or the handling fees, but that is not the case. They hit pilots with fees here and fees there and still charge too much for the services that they provide. It's already too expensive as it is, and to get beat time after time over the head with these fees is something I will not put up with. Other FBOs do all the things we hae talked about and manage just fine without breaking our backs. Doing business that way might work in Europe, but they will not get my business until someone is brought in there with a broom to clean house.

The question is not whether or not the delay bothers me, one learns to be a little understanding given the circumstances . Most of the passengers understand and realize this can and will take place depending on the time of the day. Was I happy sitting in traffic for 4 hours on an LA freeway last week?. I think not but one comes to accept it. I am not sure I am a "Signature Apoligist", I am merely a satisfied customer that has been pleased with all service I have ever gotten while frequenting Signature. Your guess is as good as mine on the other questions that you have raised. It is either a love or hate relationship with Signature. If for any reason(s) you are not satisfied then by all means one should write a formal complaint or make a phone call. It seems that many of the senior level management does take feedback seriously. Whenever I have ever placed a written suggestion in the box or praised a Signature employee for outstanding service I have usually received a follow up phone call by a management person. It would appear that they monitor their day to day operations somewhat closely.

 

[HMR]

What's with the "security" at Signature? For example at KLAS they'd have a guy checking the ID's of every person there. Fair enough, but when you're picking up highly visible movie stars do they really need to go out of their way to shake the person down before we can go on the ramp? I understand if it's some new celeb they don't recognise. But when it's Tom Selleck, Pierce Brosnan or the like who've been around awhile and everyone knows... It's embarrasing.

I don't fly movie stars anymore. I also avoid Signatures whenever possible.

 

[Fuzzy_is_Hungry]

I'm an X-Signature Ramp Rat. I spent over three years of my life there, three years I will never get back. Knowing the inner workings of that company, all I can say is that I am amazed that a company who operates like they do is still in business. If I decide to go the corporate route, I will do everything in my power to never go to any SFS FBO anywhere.

 

[350DRIVER]

Thanks for writing back. I guess my issue is the consistant leack of service I feel Signature fails to provide. For the price of thier fuel, that place should be 1st class, and I just do not believe that they are. I'll pay that higher fuel price to offset the 800# that they have, or the handling fees, but that is not the case. They hit pilots with fees here and fees there and still charge too much for the services that they provide. It's already too expensive as it is, and to get beat time after time over the head with these fees is something I will not put up with. Other FBOs do all the things we hae talked about and manage just fine without breaking our backs. Doing business that way might work in Europe, but they will not get my business until someone is brought in there with a broom to clean house.

You are more than welcome, good to get different opinions here with regards to Signature. I surely think they are indeed 1st class and I hope they do not bring that "broom in and clean house". If it ain't broke then you don't attempt to fix it. Actually I have never met one pilot who had to pay the fees, these "fees" were always passed on to the customers aka "pax". If you don't like em then don't use em, no one is forcing you to go the Signature route. I respect your opinions but don't really think you are going to make or break this company. That is the unique thing about human beings, personal preferences and we are all different.

I wish you the best with whatever FBO chain that you decide to use.

cheers,

3 5 0

 

[Flying Illini]

350-
I guess I'm coming off sounding pretty angry. That isn't the case. I'm really a level headed guy! Really!!
In my case, I have had more bad experiences than good at SFS. My opinion is not changed of you because you use SFS. If you recieve good service there, then the cost is worth it. In my case, repeated poor service finally took it's toll. I understand that things aren't going to work out everytime, I realize that things may only work out half the time, depending on how busy the SFS FBO is (where it's located). But I do expect it to work out more than it has for us.
We have complained to the manager of this particular SFS that we used to frequent on the order of 3-5 times a week. We knew him by name, he knew us by name. We weren't strangers. I have also been in to talk to this guy to compliment a certain employee of his because I didn't want his or her above and beyond service to go unnoticed.
The thing is, I've been to many FBO's where the service is continually above and beyond. I've been to many FBO's where they would rather park you up front and then tow you away, rather than park you farther away to begin with. (this happened quite frequently at SFS...and a van was not brought to bring our pax in. We made frequent complaints about that. We then started getting heat from our pax about that. So we went to SFS management and repeated our issue. Nothing happened, then our pax himself went in to speak with the manager. Then the van was there sporadically. It never should have gotten to the point where our pax had to do that. He would continually ask us why we weren't being pulled up in the evening, or parked up front in the mornings to unload. This as he walked into the building past empty spaces RIGHT UP FRONT. I don't exagerate <sp?>, this is what happened. I don't have any interest in "bringing down SFS" so I tell it as it was.) All of this stuff added up and our pax finally got fed up when the last price raise went into effect. We have ceased going there.
I have always been polite to the CSR's and Line Personell because those are the people that do the work. If they are happy, you will be happy. No matter where I go, no matter how my day has been, I always have a polite "hello, how are ya?" for the people at any FBO. I also always say "Thankyou" and "Goodnight or Goodbye" when I leave...always. They are in the same business I am in, keeping my pax happy. Period. And when my pax is no longer happy, the blame falls on the pilots and the support personell at the FBO. I'm on the same team as everybody at every FBO I go to. Some FBO's realize this and think along these lines and THOSE FBO's are the ones that continually provide top-notch service. The ones that are so-so, are the ones that see pilots as a pain in their arses (and for good reason, some pilots are jerks, I've witnessed it and someone ever witnesses me doing that, punch me in the face). But no matter what, everybody is providing service for the pax, and no one else (although it helps if they have a chair and coffee for the pilots ). That is the ultimate goal.

 

[Flying Illini]

I love you too - didn't realize I was that bad of a guy......

I knew that would come off wrong.
The problem is at NJA "bases" or whatever there called. The pilots lounge is filled up with guys that probably won't even have a flight that day (I know, it sucks for you guys as well!)
I can only stand to hear about the problems at NJA for so long. I try to be friendly and say Hi, how's it going or something but twice now it has turned into my ear being talked off about how bad management has treated you guys.
I care, but I don't want to hear about it. I guess I'm too polite to tell the guy to shut-up.
But in reality, I don't have a problem with your pilots...just when you all get together it turns into a rather loud b__tch-fest that occurs during the Dukes of Hazzard. And that I will not accept!

 

[English]

How 'bout Signature in SFO and MIA?

Somebody is actually claiming that pilots get out of the fees there?

O -Kay...

 

[EatSleepFly]

All I like about Signature is the looks I get when walking through in my uniform, which usually consists of jeans, sneakers, and a fleece! Plus maybe a hat and three days worth of stubble.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

All I like about Signature is the looks I get when walking through in my uniform, which usually consists of jeans, sneakers, and a fleece! Plus maybe a hat and three days worth of stubble.

Who are you kidding? You couldn't grow stubble if you tried!
What's up buddy?

 

[EatSleepFly]

Haha!

Where have you been? I've tried calling your office a few times.

Give me a call sometime!

 

[wannab0133]

?

350driver,


Im just assuming you fly for amw full time and corporate part time. If that's the case, then it could be an issue with you not seeing a large number of fbo's recently like the corporate types. I see hundreds a year including signatures unfortunately. Im just trying to figure why in the world you enjoy a sfs facility. I can see from a passenger standpoint(whom has no idea that they are getting ripped off) how they must enjoy sfs. You just might be a very rare speciman. Flying for 10 years and never met anyone who is sympathetic of them. Anyway, it probably keeps your blood pressure down not worrying about all this.

 

[350DRIVER]

350driver,


Im just assuming you fly for amw full time and corporate part time. If that's the case, then it could be an issue with you not seeing a large number of fbo's recently like the corporate types. I see hundreds a year including signatures unfortunately. Im just trying to figure why in the world you enjoy a sfs facility. I can see from a passenger standpoint(whom has no idea that they are getting ripped off) how they must enjoy sfs. You just might be a very rare speciman. Flying for 10 years and never met anyone who is sympathetic of them. Anyway, it probably keeps your blood pressure down not worrying about all this.

My experience with Signature was as a part 135 pilot/captain for over 5 years, and part 91 owner related flying. I have used a great many FBO's over that time frame I was 135/91 and I was never able to get the service and satisfaction that I was able to obtain from the Signatures at most other FBOs', maybe I lived in a little box but that was just my experience and feelings. You are right, I am sure a good majority on this board have been to many more than myself, I personally just never saw the "negatives" that the majority have described on this thread and I saw a whole lot of Signatures during that time since I would solely try and use them whenever that choice was available. I certainly have no vested interest or money tied up in Signature, it was merely an issue of being "satisfied" with the service that was extended to the passengers and to those of the crew(s). We had a corporate fleet of D0-328 jets and their was no difference with regards to the service of whether or not we were flying that equipment into the Signature, a CJ, or a small King Air, or a 421 that took on little fuel. From a pilot's perspective (atleast mine), I simply enjoyed the service, computers, pilot's lounge, nap quarters (LAS), overall amenities, newer crew cars,the overall appearance of the Signature facilities from both the outside and the inside, and most importantly the way that the passengers were treated once they were off the aircraft.

I do feel as if the passengers are aware of these additional fees since that was always passed on to them and the pax I flew all thought it was a small price to pay for the service of being able to use a Signature. When you got the $$$ to be operating and chartering the larger equipment these fees aren't going to be a show stopper nor is it going to break the bank. The many I have flown would argue your point of stating they were getting ripped off.

As they say, different strokes for different folks I guess

I like a Mercedes better than a BMW, basically a matter of personal preferences. As I have previously stated in the above responses it would always appear as either of a love hate relationship with Signatures.