Rez O. Lewshun
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"Why Pilots Should Make $200,000 aYear" essay thing
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ReverseSensing said:
I'm not here to debate, I'm here to express my opinion. I'm not taking my marbles and going home, I'm gonna keep jabbing my opinion when I feel the need. You know what assuming does, and you just assumed. You are right on one thing, I do have a lot more industry experience than you.
Fugawe
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- Dec 27, 2005
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We all work for someone else in this flying game. I doubt any of the posters here are independently wealthy and just flying for fun -- I could be wrong though..................So, we're all beholding to the 'company'.
I'll admit that my experience is ltd to 1 co outside the military and I've been with them 16 years. But, it appears similar, at least with all the major corporations in the US, and certainly with the major airlines as to how the financial picture plays out.
The pie is only so big, and corporate America's job is to keep more and more, and share less and less with the workers -- in any industry, not just airline. This works for Wall St because public co's are owned by the shareholders and that's who mgmt works for despite all the MBA glad-talk, people programs, back-slappin', etc that goes on.
Workers want more of the pie, mgmt's job is to keep most of it.
Unfortunately, mgmt teams aren't always sterling and they make seriously buffoonerous decisions. Seldom does mgmt take it on the chin, costs are cut to make up for mistakes and workers/labor are 'costs'.
A couple of contracts ago in our co., mgmt was whining about 'labor costs'. It's a typical mgmt gripe, especially around contract time. See "Confessions of a Union Buster". A report was put out by the pilots called 'What if we flew for free'. Report showed that even if the pilot costs were removed, the co's other costs and balance sheet items were so poorly managed that the co was in deep trouble.
Typically pilots are not good negotiators, nor great big businessmen (although we think we are). Mgmt knows us well. We think we're quite diverse, but really most of us tick to similar type-A stimuli. Mgmt manages our expectations, and generally does a great job leading us to the outcome they seek. Doesn't always matter if mgmt is inept, if they can get to an acceptable bottom line each qtr they generally keep their jobs and perks.
No one is 'owed' $200,000 to fly. But if you can negotiate it and/or earn it, good on ya'. If you're pulling it out of corporate America you're doing pretty good. If it's from a private co, you're doing great. Actually, if you're making over $200,000 flying in the US now, you're part of a very small and shrinking crowd.
We can beat each other up as to whether we 'deserve' it, or should just love it, or whether supply and demand guides our lives, or who's lucky and who's not, etc, etc. We're talking about pay. If you're working for someone else, you're gonna get paid whatever they want to pay you, and they're gonna keep as much of the pie as they can.
My sons are young but are moving toward financial independence, and if they fly, it'll be for fun and not while working for someone else. Maybe I'll follow their lead in my next life. Flying's great, but the luster wears thin as bills get harder to pay and retirement plans thin out.
Fugawe
I'll admit that my experience is ltd to 1 co outside the military and I've been with them 16 years. But, it appears similar, at least with all the major corporations in the US, and certainly with the major airlines as to how the financial picture plays out.
The pie is only so big, and corporate America's job is to keep more and more, and share less and less with the workers -- in any industry, not just airline. This works for Wall St because public co's are owned by the shareholders and that's who mgmt works for despite all the MBA glad-talk, people programs, back-slappin', etc that goes on.
Workers want more of the pie, mgmt's job is to keep most of it.
Unfortunately, mgmt teams aren't always sterling and they make seriously buffoonerous decisions. Seldom does mgmt take it on the chin, costs are cut to make up for mistakes and workers/labor are 'costs'.
A couple of contracts ago in our co., mgmt was whining about 'labor costs'. It's a typical mgmt gripe, especially around contract time. See "Confessions of a Union Buster". A report was put out by the pilots called 'What if we flew for free'. Report showed that even if the pilot costs were removed, the co's other costs and balance sheet items were so poorly managed that the co was in deep trouble.
Typically pilots are not good negotiators, nor great big businessmen (although we think we are). Mgmt knows us well. We think we're quite diverse, but really most of us tick to similar type-A stimuli. Mgmt manages our expectations, and generally does a great job leading us to the outcome they seek. Doesn't always matter if mgmt is inept, if they can get to an acceptable bottom line each qtr they generally keep their jobs and perks.
No one is 'owed' $200,000 to fly. But if you can negotiate it and/or earn it, good on ya'. If you're pulling it out of corporate America you're doing pretty good. If it's from a private co, you're doing great. Actually, if you're making over $200,000 flying in the US now, you're part of a very small and shrinking crowd.
We can beat each other up as to whether we 'deserve' it, or should just love it, or whether supply and demand guides our lives, or who's lucky and who's not, etc, etc. We're talking about pay. If you're working for someone else, you're gonna get paid whatever they want to pay you, and they're gonna keep as much of the pie as they can.
My sons are young but are moving toward financial independence, and if they fly, it'll be for fun and not while working for someone else. Maybe I'll follow their lead in my next life. Flying's great, but the luster wears thin as bills get harder to pay and retirement plans thin out.
Fugawe
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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Herman Bloom
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- Feb 20, 2003
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To those of you who insist that a professions "worth" -- ie, compensation -- be based on the gravity of the consequences derived from an error: How much would you be willing to compensate, say, a spinal surgeon for a routine fusion operation? What is the value of your ability to walk? $10,000? $30,000? Do you think that a spinal surgeon makes anywhere close to that amount for a perfectly executed surgery? A resounding "No".
Go cry into someone else's beer.
Go cry into someone else's beer.
pilotyip
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 13,629
heck I even agree with Fugawe's post, you deserve nothing, you are owed nothing, if you can get $200K great! go for it, if under $200K is too low pay for you don't take the job. But don't tell anyone you are owed anything just because you have the common skill of being able to fly an airplane. A squared has it figured out.
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