Why is the ATP written such a Joke?

[LivestockTony]

250 hours to fly boxes, where the only person in jepoardy is the pilot.

1200 to teach another person, and hold his life in your hands, doesn't seem unreasonable.

I dunno... a 207 or single pilot 1900 filled with chemicals, radioactives, POLs, or biological hazmat could do an awful lot more damage than a CFI who gets behind his student....

-TF

 

[timeless]

Whenever I had biological hazmat, I assumed the worst and thought I was hauling HIV or Ebola.

Avbug, I'm not complaining about the ATP written being easy for me. My issue is that it is easy for everybody. If you are literate, english proficient and have some free time you will pass.

Good post above about the ability of some pilots succeed despite their incompetence. My company hired some of them in 2007, but now that hiring has slowed down we were able to replace some of them with quality pilots. The best and brightest usually aren't attracted to part 135 freight unless it's the only option.

 

[avbug]

I'm not complaining about the ATP written being easy for me. My issue is that it is easy for everybody. If you are literate, english proficient and have some free time you will pass.

Yes, you can breeze through nearly anything if you take the easy way out. If that's all your flying and career mean to you, then perhaps it is a joke to you.

Like I did with my mechanic tests, I spent a year preparing for the written (and it was a written, when I took it), and a year preparing for the practical.

I did the same for the mechanic tests...after a number of years of practical experience, I spent a year documenting the experience in detail, a year preparing for the writtens, and a year preparing for the practical.

Others take short courses and get it done quickly, and to them its probably a joke, just like your pilot certification is to you.

It's not that way for all of us, and some of us actually take it seriously. In the end, it's not the standard to which the FAA holds you, but the standard to which you hold yourself. I find that when I get in the cockpit with someone, the difference shows.

 

[timeless]

I at no point meant to insinuate that my pilot certification was a joke to me. I do hold myself to a high standard. My employer and the people I fly with can attest to that. I like flying turboprops full of freight and I have a thorough knowledge of all the regulatory and performance aspects relating to the kind of flying I do. I can squeeze every last mile of range out of a shorts and make sure I'm legal and safe while I'm doing it.

I definitely agree with your opinion of short courses. I administered myself a 5 day self study self taught CDL course which resulted in me earning a CDL. Later as my semi was going sideways down an icy road I was pretty sure I could have benefitted from some better training. I never put the truck in the ditch, but scared myself a couple of times. Despite a couple of rough days it was a great part time job while I was instructing. Given the economy I might be back in a truck before I know it.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Just remember this important fact from the Flight Engineer written Test: Battery acid burns much like household Lye. Do not get it on your clothes.

 

[avbug]

Given the economy I might be back in a truck before I know it.

There but for the grace, go we all. Many of us are already there. Good luck.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I love the new avatar TA. :beer:

 

[ALIMBO]

You would amish lol

 

[Amish RakeFight]

You would amish lol

In what sense do you mean?

 

[tathepilot]

I love the new avatar TA. :beer:

Thanks!

 

[ALIMBO]

In what sense do you mean?

Nothing just a talk we had about voting not to long ago lol.

 

[CX880]

If you explained the ATP written to a CPA, Lawyer, Engineer or Doctor they would be appalled. Those fields actually take knowledge testing seriously when licensing individuals. Their tests require months of studying to have any chance at success. Some people still can't pass after multiple attempts. That means that the tests are doing their job by eliminating people that aren't and never will be qualified.

The fact that any pilot can attend a two day course and pass the ATP written with a 90% or better proves the test is not effective. At best it tests literacy and memorization. Why doesn't the FAA take knowledge testing seriously? Why are the questions made available? Is there any other way stupid people could be prevented from becoming commercial pilots? It seems that once they are licensed someone will hire them. They are usually easy to get along with and great people, but you can tell that they are in over their heads and no amount of experience will make them competent.

The problem with your analogy is that the ATP is not even on the same level as the MCATS, Lawyer tests, and other career type tests. The ATP is more on par with a drivers license written at your local DMV. If you crack open an MCAT, in order for you to answer correctly you need to have paid attention in school starting at the elementary level.

As someone has already said, this industry is self regulating. If someone is incompetent it's a good bet that they will not make it to a professional cockpit.

 

[eyeamthechosen1]

I think everyone has made a valid points about testing but a lot of these comparisons are apples and oranges. Everyone likes to jump on the doctor testing bandwagon but even with all that testing there are still MILLIONS of dollars in malpractice suits filed. My point is the idiots will always find a way to get through. Ask the public if Captain Sullenberger had enough testing. He took the same EASY test that you did. Seems like he was prepared.

 

[JAFI]

As someone has already said, this industry is self regulating. If someone is incompetent it's a good bet that they will not make it to a professional cockpit.

If this were only true. After all they only have to be competent to pass the test once. After that they can get as dumb as their company (or fate) allows. And at some companies - no one ever fails. So it is fate that is the selection process.

 

[nosehair]

So it is fate that is the selection process.

...'at right there, 'at's the reason we all do it...

 

[CX880]

If this were only true. After all they only have to be competent to pass the test once. After that they can get as dumb as their company (or fate) allows. And at some companies - no one ever fails. So it is fate that is the selection process.

If someone is not capable of making it, they will not make it. From experience, some people are just destined to fail. It's not fate. No company however relaxed they are in training can fix stupid.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'm allergic to stupid.

 

[JAFI]

If someone is not capable of making it, they will not make it. From experience, some people are just destined to fail. It's not fate. No company however relaxed they are in training can fix stupid.

So what about the flight schools that if the check clears - you pass?

 

[Lynxman]

They will sort themselves out in the future whether the consequences are good or bad.

 

[gulfstream2345]

As a former FAA Ops Inspector I can say that not having the FAA review log books is a mistake. I probably averaged 1 or 2 a month, of all the logs I reviewed, that were falsfied. It was usually pretty easy to spot. The self-certification now and the written test examiner's review of the log book is a real joke. Printing all the possible test questions is also a joke. You might ask what happened to the logs I found that were falsified? Those pilots were given an option, in most cases, to come back with a corrected log. I didn't have to do that and would have been in trouble if management knew it. I was able to generally put the fear of the FAA into the applicant to do it right but if they insisted on giving me something that I was able to prove was false, their pilot certificates were revoked.