why is FDX posting pilot jobs?

[stonewall]

It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with chief pilots that have this attitude that a 2000 hour air force guy coming straight off of active duty is as qualified as a guy that has actually been flying boxes on a heavy with 6000+ total time. This attitude is a farce and it is reflected in the hiring pool. Military pilots are a small part of the total pilot pool but they fill 60% or more of the classes hired by FDX. "You Guys" have had your career handed to you on a silver platter. I have had both military and civilian flight training and jobs. I'm telling you the civilian route is much more lengthy and difficult. You have to fly some really questionable aircraft for next to no $ to get the time you need or you'll never progress. Military pay and maintenance is substantially better than the majority of little operators. To go direct from active duty to a top of the line airlinel eaves "you guys" absolutely no appreciation for the hardships the civs have had to go through to get to the top.

You have made up your mind. Nobody handed me anything...you really have nothing to back up such a stupid statement. I'm aware of the difficulties civ pilots face to get to a major. You, however, seem to have no clue about the challenges of mil aviation. You think it's easy? It's all just handed to you? Naivete in the extreme.

Get to know more people at FDX and stop being a jerk. It'll improve your chances greatly.

 

[b757driver]

Oh Boy!

You guys are missing the point. The FedEx Interview process favors one type of person.....Not Mil...Not Civ, but A Person who knows other FedEx Pilots.

Obviously the company has liked what they have gotten since they went to the sponsorship format, (or at least the SCP has, since he runs the interview selection process) They seem to like that it requires so many hoops to jump thru. Seperates the wheat from the chaff. Mil guys seem to have the upperhand when it comes to networking. I barely remember any names from my former pt 121 job, but if a bud from my first squadron called me up, we could drink beers like I'd seen him yesterday.
As to the whole Civ/Mil thing, you guys seem to have made up your minds. However, Once you flown for a while with a group made up of both camps, you realize there is no difference.

Missing the point? I don't think so.
By your own admission above, you tell us what we already know. Namely, if you are former military and have the networking advantage, you're in. All others need not apply. Of course the company likes what it has - it's an old boys' club. Why would you want to upset that cozy relationship?
You are not separating wheat from the chaff, only perpetuating the myth. Do you really think that civilian pilots with equal quals are incapable of jumping through hoops?
Again, nothing wrong with networking but when it automatically excludes hundreds if not thousands, of good candidates, I have a problem with that.
The only comment I agree with is your last statement which is all the more sad because it proves my argument that the civilian guys are just as good - given the opportunity!

 

[HoursHore]

Good thing the Civilian only FedEx Pilots didn't read your post. They would have never applied if they knew the odds were so stacked against them!!.

It really is to bad that you let your misconceptions of our hiring process keep you from trying to get an interview.

 

[AdlerDriver]

"You Guys" have had your career handed to you on a silver platter. I have had both military and civilian flight training and jobs. I'm telling you the civilian route is much more lengthy and difficult.

This from a CH-47 pilot. Dude, you have no clue about the fixed wing training most of us went through to create our "silver platter". Mucking around in that egg-beater for 18 years has scrambled your brain. Let those of us who actually know what military fixed wing training/flying is like express an educated opinion about it. You're not helping to bolster your opinion with those of us in the know.

_________________________________________________________________
From another ex-military, now civilian pilot who has has been on both sides of the fence and did it the hard way.

And then there's b757driver.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Just don't try to back it up with your closing statement. You're not an ex-military pilot and you haven't seen both sides of the fence.

They often make many sacrifices, both financial and personal, to eventually get to that coveted job. You have no clue what happens on our side of the fence when it comes to sacrifice. You're showing YOUR ignorance of what it takes to be a military pilot.
There is no "silver spoon" or "old boys" network for them; no GI bill; no deferred pension nor VA to come running. A "silver spoon" implies you were born into the position - there's plenty of civilians who are flying Fedex jets thanks to their daddy. You'll have to explain how the GI bill, a deferred pension (whatever that is) and the VA are going to help someone get a job at Fedex.
Its sheer hard work and determination. Right.... and sheer hard work and determination are so lacking in most military aviators I know.

Stick to what you know. You want to educate us about climbing the civilian ladder? More power to you. Just do it without the uninformed comparisons.

You two are really amazing whiners. If the military route is so much easier than civilian, why didn't you go that way?

 

[Slice121]

It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with chief pilots that have this attitude that a 2000 hour air force guy coming straight off of active duty is as qualified as a guy that has actually been flying boxes on a heavy with 6000+ total time. This attitude is a farce and it is reflected in the hiring pool. Military pilots are a small part of the total pilot pool but they fill 60% or more of the classes hired by FDX. "You Guys" have had your career handed to you on a silver platter. I have had both military and civilian flight training and jobs. I'm telling you the civilian route is much more lengthy and difficult. You have to fly some really questionable aircraft for next to no $ to get the time you need or you'll never progress. Military pay and maintenance is substantially better than the majority of little operators. To go direct from active duty to a top of the line airlinel eaves "you guys" absolutely no appreciation for the hardships the civs have had to go through to get to the top.

Maybe you should call JL the CP at FDX (an ex-Navy pilot) and voice your concerns...perhaps he'll offer you an interview. :nuts:

 

[b757driver]

This from a CH-47 pilot. Dude, you have no clue about the fixed wing training most of us went through to create our "silver platter". Mucking around in that egg-beater for 18 years has scrambled your brain. Let those of us who actually know what military fixed wing training/flying is like express an educated opinion about it. You're not helping to bolster your opinion with those of us in the know.



And then there's b757driver.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Just don't try to back it up with your closing statement. You're not an ex-military pilot and you haven't seen both sides of the fence.

They often make many sacrifices, both financial and personal, to eventually get to that coveted job. You have no clue what happens on our side of the fence when it comes to sacrifice. You're showing YOUR ignorance of what it takes to be a military pilot.
There is no "silver spoon" or "old boys" network for them; no GI bill; no deferred pension nor VA to come running. A "silver spoon" implies you were born into the position - there's plenty of civilians who are flying Fedex jets thanks to their daddy. You'll have to explain how the GI bill, a deferred pension (whatever that is) and the VA are going to help someone get a job at Fedex.
Its sheer hard work and determination. Right.... and sheer hard work and determination are so lacking in most military aviators I know.

Stick to what you know. You want to educate us about climbing the civilian ladder? More power to you. Just do it without the uninformed comparisons.

You two are really amazing whiners. If the military route is so much easier than civilian, why didn't you go that way?

Not whinning, just calling a spade a spade.
And you are entitled to your opinion,also. I just happen to disagree - it's a free country last time I checked. You know nothing about my military background therefore are unqualified to comment! I never said I was an ex-military pilot - that's an assumption you made - read the details below my avatar. Also it does not take a military pilot to know what military flight training is all about. It's no big secret, is it?
Try to think a little outside the box. I was NOT suggesting that the GI bill, VA etc helped people get into Fedex. I was saying that the military have the upper hand when it comes to ways and means in getting interviews and subsequently jobs. There's a lot of help out there for you guys when compared to the civilian lot. That's fact. Even your bud agreed on that one when he mentioned the advantages of networking. I was merely agreeing with that sentiment.
Like you, I made choices, and at the time, I had no desire to be a military aviator. That came later in civvy street when I paid my dues. Also, like you, I did serve in the military in an aviation capacity and have seen plenty on both sides. I am as qualified as any here to voice an opinion. Unlike you, I do not blow off people just because they flew rotary-wing or were military non-aviators. I can see the argument from both sides but it troubles me when there is so much rhetoric, misinformation, ignorance and plain discrimination.
I suggest you stick to what you know and not assume you know it all, which you clearly don't!

 

[fartknocker]

Good thing the Civilian only FedEx Pilots didn't read your post. They would have never applied if they knew the odds were so stacked against them!!.

It really is to bad that you let your misconceptions of our hiring process keep you from trying to get an interview.

I guess I shouldn't have applied and updated my profile so much. I also should not have aggravated my sponsor for a long time to sponsor me. Or maybe I shouldn't have been so friendly with those FedEx jumpseaters. I might not have gotten my interview at FedEx. That way I could complain more about how unfair life is to me. :bawling:

 

[AdlerDriver]

………….. You know nothing about my military background therefore are unqualified to comment! I never said I was an ex-military pilot - that's an assumption you made - read the details below my avatar. Also it does not take a military pilot to know what military flight training is all about. It's no big secret, is it?

I read your avatar details. Military non-aviator. Then you close you post with “From another ex-military, now civilian pilot who has been on both sides of the fence and did it the hard way." You imply (either on purpose or accidentally) that you are an ex-military, now civilian pilot. Yes, it does take a military pilot who has completed training to know what military flight training is ALL about. There’s no big secret about lots of training. Crop dusters, skydiving, 18-wheelers, oil tankers, whatever. I wouldn’t have the audacity to start spouting opinions about training programs I never completed just because there is public information available about them.

….. I was NOT suggesting that the GI bill, VA etc helped people get into Fedex. I was saying that the military have the upper hand when it comes to ways and means in getting interviews and subsequently jobs. There's a lot of help out there for you guys when compared to the civilian lot.

Then don’t refer to GI bill and VA like they have anything to do with getting interview and subsequent jobs. You still refer to them like they are some kind of job/interview aid. There’s a lot of help out there???? What? Like government aid programs to get mil pilots jobs at Fedex? There’s a lot of help out there because we help each other. It’s as simple as that. You want to b!tch about the fact that we have camaraderie, made some good friends and are willing to vouch for buds we trusted with our lives? – Go ahead. Wahhhhhh. :bawling:

….Like you, I made choices, and at the time, I had no desire to be a military aviator. That came later in civvy street when I paid my dues.

What came later – a desire to be a military aviator? I don’t understand your statement.

Also, like you, I did serve in the military in an aviation capacity and have seen plenty on both sides. I am as qualified as any here to voice an opinion. Unlike you, I do not blow off people just because they flew rotary-wing or were military non-aviators.

What aviation capacity? Were talking about military pilots - you either were one or you were not. I like my crew chief and he has real talent. Just the same, I don’t go to him for advice on how to fly my aircraft or ask him his opinion of military vs. civilian training programs. I don’t blow someone off because they flew rotary-wing or were mil non-aviators. I blow them off because they start trying to spout opinions about sh!t they are clearly uninformed about.

I can see the argument from both sides but it troubles me when there is so much rhetoric, misinformation, ignorance and plain discrimination.

I suggest you stick to what you know and not assume you know it all, which you clearly don't!

What argument? What is it you see from both sides? All I can see is you and stupidpilot getting on this forum and b!tching because you think mil pilots get interviews at Fedex that we don’t deserve. Unfortunately for you, in addition to hours, experience and aircraft flown, Fedex wants someone to vouch for you. That’s just the way it is. Networking as a civilian takes some extra work. I’ll bet there’s a good chance you know someone or a few someones here. You just don’t know it. If not, then you’re SOL – no matter how great you are. There are a bunch of great pilots out there and the thing that puts some over the top (mil or civ) is knowing someone on the inside.
When I was getting furloughed from UAL, I shot gunned about a hundred resumes out to corporate flight departments across the USA. I heard back from exactly zero. Everyone knows that business is all about who you know and who can pull you in. I knew no one and got the expected results. One thing I didn’t do was come on the corporate forum here and whine about how I couldn’t get hired because I didn’t have a sponsor. That’s just the way it was.

 

[stupidpilot]

I read your avatar details. Military non-aviator. Then you close you post with “From another ex-military, now civilian pilot who has been on both sides of the fence and did it the hard way." You imply (either on purpose or accidentally) that you are an ex-military, now civilian pilot. Yes, it does take a military pilot who has completed training to know what military flight training is ALL about. There’s no big secret about lots of training. Crop dusters, skydiving, 18-wheelers, oil tankers, whatever. I wouldn’t have the audacity to start spouting opinions about training programs I never completed just because there is public information available about them.


Then don’t refer to GI bill and VA like they have anything to do with getting interview and subsequent jobs. You still refer to them like they are some kind of job/interview aid. There’s a lot of help out there???? What? Like government aid programs to get mil pilots jobs at Fedex? There’s a lot of help out there because we help each other. It’s as simple as that. You want to b!tch about the fact that we have camaraderie, made some good friends and are willing to vouch for buds we trusted with our lives? – Go ahead. Wahhhhhh. :bawling:



What came later – a desire to be a military aviator? I don’t understand your statement.



What aviation capacity? Were talking about military pilots - you either were one or you were not. I like my crew chief and he has real talent. Just the same, I don’t go to him for advice on how to fly my aircraft or ask him his opinion of military vs. civilian training programs. I don’t blow someone off because they flew rotary-wing or were mil non-aviators. I blow them off because they start trying to spout opinions about sh!t they are clearly uninformed about.



What argument? What is it you see from both sides? All I can see is you and stupidpilot getting on this forum and b!tching because you think mil pilots get interviews at Fedex that we don’t deserve. Unfortunately for you, in addition to hours, experience and aircraft flown, Fedex wants someone to vouch for you. That’s just the way it is. Networking as a civilian takes some extra work. I’ll bet there’s a good chance you know someone or a few someones here. You just don’t know it. If not, then you’re SOL – no matter how great you are. There are a bunch of great pilots out there and the thing that puts some over the top (mil or civ) is knowing someone on the inside.
When I was getting furloughed from UAL, I shot gunned about a hundred resumes out to corporate flight departments across the USA. I heard back from exactly zero. Everyone knows that business is all about who you know and who can pull you in. I knew no one and got the expected results. One thing I didn’t do was come on the corporate forum here and whine about how I couldn’t get hired because I didn’t have a sponsor. That’s just the way it was.

Relax. I was a military aviator and now I am a civilian pilot. I completed the whole program so I'm afraid I do know what I'm talking about. All I'm trying to point out is that there appears to be a huge discrepancy in the % of mil vs civ pilots hired by FDX. Mil guys make up a much smaller portion of the pilot pool than the civ guys and there is a disproportionate hiring ratio. There just seems to be a misguided notion that mil guys are better pilots than civ guys. I'll bet you anything that if you look at the flight hour diff between the avg mil guy and the avg civ guy hired that you'll see a huge discrepancy. I know many many mil aviators and many civ aviators and from what I see it is the individual and not the background. So just relax, I'm not trying to disparage the mil only guys. I'm sure you're great pilots. I just see that the civ guy has no chance at all from going from flying job #1 to the top of the food chain while you guys do.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Relax. I was a military aviator and now I am a civilian pilot. I completed the whole program so I'm afraid I do know what I'm talking about.

I’m quite relaxed. Had a nice cocktail in my hand for the last post and rather enjoying our little debate here, thanks.
:beer:
I know you were a military aviator. You’ve said so in past posts. You flew CH-47Ds for 18 years. Unless you flew fixed wing aircraft for the USAF or Navy/Marines, you didn’t complete the “whole program” that I’m talking about. I’m assuming you completed the Army’s flight school that qualified you to eventually fly the CH-47D (you can correct me if it was some other path). All military pilot training is not the same and I’m sure you know that.

I know it’s not the same for a variety of reasons. One way I know this is the ex-US Army Cobra pilot in my UPT class who tried and failed to complete that training. If the schools were all the same, they would have just given him his wings and let him go on his way. The guy couldn’t think faster than his Cobra used to fly and he was dumb as a post so he washed out. I digress. My point is…. The fact that you were a helo pilot and completed that training does not qualify you to pass judgment on the USAF/Navy/Marine training and the day to day flight experience of the fighter pilots in those services. You’ve never done it.

Therefore, you have no business making statements like these:

“It has to do with chief pilots that have this attitude that a 2000 hour air force guy coming straight off of active duty is as qualified as a guy that has actually been flying boxes on a heavy with 6000+ total time. This attitude is a farce and it is reflected in the hiring pool.”

“Flying broken down, beat up, poorly maintained aircraft in hard IMC dodging bad weather so you can gain the type of time you need to get on to the next step is just as, if not more valid than the good training you received free and got paid for it from Uncle Sam.”

“But some companies roll out the red carpet for you guys and because you get hired with so little time you think you are better.”

I don’t come on this forum and pass uninformed judgments on your training. I don’t know squat about CH-47s or the training…. and I’m a military pilot…. well, what do you know about that? I would never state that your helo training didn’t qualify you to get whatever job you got after you got out. Frankly, it looks like it would be hard as sh!t. Not to mention having to think about those inter-meshing rotors over my head – hoping the gear system does its job. Good on you – 18 years of that is something to be proud of. Why is it, you seem to think your rotary wing training qualifies you to judge the worth of 2000 hours of fighter time?

I'll bet you anything that if you look at the flight hour diff between the avg mil guy and the avg civ guy hired that you'll see a huge discrepancy.

So what? The trend I see in your statements is that you are infatuated with a pilot’s total flight time and little else. You just need to come to grips with the fact that some flight hours have more experience “packed” into them than others. Fedex knows it, SWA, UAL, AA, UPS, etc, etc, etc, all know it. Look at those company’s apps. Why do you think it is that they break down flight time and have a fighter category? They know they can’t just arbitrarily compare flight hours. Why?

First, let’s call a spade a spade. Where is the “challenge” in flying civil cargo aircraft or pax airliners? The taxi, takeoff, the approach and landing and emergencies, right? If a guy flew 500 flights from the US to Asia at 12 hours a pop – would you value his 6000 hours as much as an RJ pilot hopping around the US for 6000 hours? Considering both guys are probably only going to get half the landings (maybe less for the long-haul guy), I’d take the RJ pilot. Why? Because he has had more exposure to what most people consider the most challenging facets of flying those aircraft. If you disagree with this logic then you might as well stop reading because we obviously don’t have common ground.

So, on to fighters. Do you realize a fighter pilot probably averages 200-250 hours per year? That’s a good year, too. On a fighter sortie we start engines, taxi out, talk to ATC, takeoff, level off, navigate, descend, fly approaches, land, taxi in and shutdown (all the “challenging” stuff I mentioned above). Guess what? That’s the job the airlines are hiring us to do.
In the middle of all that stuff we stop for a while and do stuff to accomplish our mission. You know, stuff like fly formation, air re-fueling, air-to-air combat training, bombing missions, low-levels, and the list goes on. The airlines know that stuff is wayyyyyyy harder and more complicated than the first list of stuff. They also know that if we can do that hard stuff, we can probably manage to fly from A to B for them when they hire us.
They also know that all that stuff – the easy and the hard- all happen over the course of an average sortie length of 1 hour (maybe 1.3). So, when they look at a 10 year fighter pilot with 1500-2000 sorties (all which have takeoffs, approaches, landings, etc that they flew single pilot – no sharing ) for a grand total of 2000 hours and our fictional 6000 hour cargo pilot (at say, 3 hours per flight – for 2000 flights) – they don’t see much difference. If he’s getting 6 hours per flight, they might not want him over the fighter pilot.
The Chief Pilot thinks the 2000 hour fighter pilot is as qualified as the 6000 hour pilot “already flying boxes” because, in fact, he is. Better? Not necessarily – that’s where the whole “individual pilot” comes in and you and I finally find some common ground.

But………The fighter pilot knows someone at Fedex and the cargo pilot doesn’t. That’s just the way it is. Life ain’t fair.:bawling:

..I just see that the civ guy has no chance at all from going from flying job #1 to the top of the food chain while you guys do.

That’s because flying job #1 for guys like me was an F-15 at age 24 and lasted for the next 12 years. Nice exaggeration. Trying to equate a civilian job #1 with a military flying career is not helping you make your point.