why is aviation degree SO bad?

[chawbein]

I knew early on that I could NEVER be a Doctor, I just didn't have the patience.

Jeez that sucked.

 

[vclean]

A 10 year old degree without experience, doesn't have much value. In a prior life, I was an IT professional. Even a few years later, my marketability has depreciated significantly.

As stated above, earning a degree shows determination and a willingness to succeed.

Earn a degree you will enjoy attaining. Once it is >5 years old, particularly with technical based degrees, employment in that specialty may be difficult.

Just my opinion/experience, your mileage may vary.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

You can spend an entire semester learning theory on optimal cruise levels and speed for commercial jets, but you can throw all that in the garbage when a Citation SII is clogging up the airway 4000 above and 8 miles ahead of you.

Get a degree in sales.

 

[414Flyer]

I do not think a doctor is a good comparison, since Doctors do not routinely find themselves out of a job. It is a completely different situation for them in terms of supply and demand. There is always a job somewhere for a doctor or nurse.

Pilots do however are often out of a job due to bankruptcy, mergers, furloughs, incompetent management, corporate flight depts shutting down, whatever. The aviation profession is so more more unstable, its not valid to compare the two. Not to mention there are always more pilots than there are jobs.

I have thought that aviation degrees were more a way to help get financial aid for flying and incorporate it into a college program.

Its not neccessarily a degree you need to fall back on, but it is good. But I would suggest at least having some kind of skill, at least so you dont have to be a hostage to some incompetent boss. Its easier to tell him to go pound sand when there are other things in life you can do for a while...I think one reason why pilots are often beholden to their employers so much, is that many pilots do not have any other skills to fall back on like that.

 

[Airspur]

All I've seen so far are opinions. I appreciate the discussion, but there's no real evidence, yet, that the aviation degree is worthless.

I think not having any additional skills is another story. I did some ranching, construction, and FBO line work before getting my degree. If it got bad and I was out of a flying job, I'm confident that I could get another job. Maybe not as a Physicist, Chemist, Engineer, or Accountant, but I'm sure I could get a job that pays enough to live off of.

 

[vclean]

Perhaps you've answered your own question. The aviation degree is not necessarily worthless, But any degree can be worthless without real world experience. You seem to have other skills you can find work with, focus on gaining useful skills and networking. Remember it's not what you know, but who you know.

 

[Airspur]

vclean,
that's a good point and it's a better example of good advise
versus, "Don't get an aviation degree!" without any real merit.

 

[Herman Bloom]

The Doctor comparison is entirely baseless. Doctors must go to college first (and they must absolutely excell in every subject they take as an undergraduate), then go to four years of medical school (that means studying NOTHING BUT the practice of medicine). They must then go out for three to sometimes as long as ten or eleven years (for some subspecialties) and work 80 hours a week/weekends/holidays making 40 to 50 thousand a year just to get licensed. Then they can go out and "get a job". Medicine is not just some undergraduate major. It truly requires eight to twelve years of full time commitment.

So to recap: Aviation Degree= worthless
Medical Degree=lucrative

 

[dmspilot00]

My wife's got a B.S. in Psychology, and she discovered that she can't do squat until she gets her Masters...except tell me I'm "in denial" when we have a disagreement.

As a humorous sidebar, a psych prof of mine once said he saw a bumper sticker that said, "Denial is not just a river in Africa."

As far as the usefulness of undergraduate vs. graduate degrees, I think it depends on the particular field.

The medicine thing... when a doctor goes to medical school, that education is the basis and foundation for his future job in medicine. An aviation (aero sci.) degree is in no way the basis and foundation of a piloting job. You could use that to argue that aviation degree is useless, but I won't; I'm just using it to prove the point you can't compare medicine and aviation in that manner.

 

[bobbysamd]

Aviation degree

I'll vote with the minority; I like an aviation degree.

You receive a though education in aviation by way of an aviation degree. You receive ground school taught in depth, hopefully, and knowledge in associated subjects, such as meterology, flight phys, physics, and math. Also, at least at Riddle, anyway, technical writing courses. This is all valuable knowledge to have as a pilot, and good education. Good English skills are important to pilots, especially if they have to apply for a job and compose a cogent cover letter of application.

I do not claim to know every aviation program, but most college programs have room for you to take electives.

The important thing about an aviation degree is it provides you with the foundation of knowledge to be a pilot. I realize that one should have a Plan B; the degree, in and of itself, is your Plan B. There are many positions for which you are qualified simply by having a four-year degree. If you are hell-bent on having more than the degree for your Plan B, take electives in something in which you're interested or just want to learn. E.g., you can take courses in business, especially accounting and management, if you want that background.

Absolutely the bottom-line is you should have a four-year degree in something so you can at least brandish it to the interviewer. But, as others above noted, the degree signifies an accomplishment, in particular the ability to learn and to complete an academic program. I already had my degree before I started in aviation, so whether to earn one was a non-issue. In looking back, I wish that I had finished my ratings at a place like Riddle and earned a second B.S. in aviation.

 

[Riddle momma]

A couple of ways to look at it:

As a pilot, you gain most of the knowlege you need while you get your certificates right? I mean you learn aerodynamics, performance, regulations, systems and all that in ground school.
I DID go to Riddle, and although I trully value my degree, I don't think I'd be a bad pilot had I not taken the MD80 Autopilot class, or the global navigation class, or the dreaded flight physiology!

An aviation degree is not a bad thing to get, it's just that if you put yourself in a sales recruiter position and look at this resume that says: BS in Aeronautical Science, Minor in meteorology, he'll be naturally inclined in asking what courses did that include, or what experience with customer service have you had. Your answer to the first question would be so far over his head, he'd just nod and smile, and ask the second question. To this you say, well, I greeted passesngers in the terminals (I don't see that too often), and thanked them for flying our airline. Sure he might have been impressed that you were a pilot, but our field just doesn't quite mesh with anything else...

With unemployment rates so high, there are plenty of people with more useful degrees than Aviation. So, although an aviation degree is great for pilots, it's not so versatile.

 

[pilotyip]

What do yo want?

What do you want? I have nothing against a college degree, however the college degree is not the end all in a pilot's career. The degree and a career as a pilot are two different issues. Too much value is put on the value of 4 yr degree in aviation and it is misplaced. What do you want to do, become a pilot and get a flying job no matter what, or do you want to have a "life style" making lots of money, lots of days off, only work when he wants to by bidding lines he likes, and free travel all over? It makes me think of the pilot at meet at Air Inc in ATL in 2000 who was pursuing life style, before he had the hours for his first job. Any one reading this board can make it as a pilot provided the talent and desire are there and eventually make it to a point where they can live on what they make, it may not be a "major", but it might be a good charter operation, a good corporate job, a regional, or something involving flying airplanes. It is hard, it is lots of moves, you go where the next job is, it is living in flop houses with 4 other pilots and one bathroom down the hall, it is not buying any new underwear for one year, it is driving a car that you jump start from the battery you keep in the apt on a charger, it is being 100% subservient to your bosses wishes until you can move to your next job and he gives you a good recommendation, it is saying no to your brothers birthday party, it is saying no to being home a Christmas. Come to think about it, this sounds alot like being in the Navy, except for the underwear part. They made us get new stuff. You do not need a 4 yr degree to make it as a successful pilot, in fact you may get to the non "major" level of flying quicker without the time wasted in the pursuit of the 4 yr degree. When you go for your job interview at 22-23 years of age and the non-college pilot has 2500 TT hours, 15000 MEL, 1000 Turbin and the college grad has 350TT, with 25 MEL, who will get the job? You need a talent for flying, you need a most gracious personality that focuses on what you can give and not what you can take, and a goal is sight that you will pursue no matter what. I know this post will probably bring out some different views, because it so politically incorrect, and besides I am semi management in a bottom feeder industry, so what would I know about an aviation career.

 

[avbug]

Man, oh man. That sounds familiar. Except I that I finally got a new car battery.

You got underwear at least every 12 months? You lucky buggar!

That's what I sent to my brother for his birthday when I couldn't go. I was always told to buy something you can use, when looking for a gift.

 

[flywithastick]

"Why is an aviation degree so bad?"

This all depends on the vantage point. From someone familiar with the civillian aviation industry (and maybe some mil), it's not all bad. In almost any other industry, it has no name recognition and possibly no technical merit.

As for the petrochem manufacturing, refining and industrial engineering & construction world, it would be near worthless. Very few if any would have the slightest idea what these degrees entail or any idea about these specialized schools.

Someone said all degrees (paraphrasing) were useless after 10 yrs of work. Generally, I don't believe that's correct. Most professional jobs I know of have minimum educational requirements - BS science, BS business, BS liberal arts, etc. One may not use the knowledge gained from earning the degree, but are requirements for employment.

you ever want to get a job in an industry other than flying/aviation, you need a degree that's valued by other industries. To think otherwise is just fooling yourself.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

All I've seen so far are opinions. I appreciate the discussion, but there's no real evidence, yet, that the aviation degree is worthless.

/B]

It's not so much that an aviation degree is worthless, the meat of the matter is that it will generally not help you get a flying job.

Airspur:
The FACT of the matter is that most professional pilots do not have aviation degrees. That is fact and not opinion. There's nothing wrong with getting an aviation degree, but I think for those wondering which way to go, the advice given by an overwhelming number of pilots to go in a different direction for your studies is good advice.

I'm another geography major and I can say without hesitation that it has enahnced my line of work and been quite invaluable in my travels for reasons that would take me too long to go into here.

 

[Joseph II]

I work in an aviation company where most of my co-workers have aviation degrees. I have an associates degree in electronics and my CFI-A.

Although I do not know jack about turbine engines, or how to fly a B737 simulator, I guarantee I am as good as the rest of those around me. I also believe I came to the job with some experience outside of aviation (computer programming, automation, computer repair) that others have no clue about. It is not 100% directly related to what I do, but at least I've worked for companies that produce products other then aviation related goods.

I'm going to school on my company’s dime. I am looking at a degree in Computer Science. Why? Because those around me already have aviation degrees and I have the job a new aviation degree grad would expect to get and our company has a programming department that pays 20k more then what I am making now.

I want to fly for a living but that has not materialized yet.

It's all about having a backup plan.

 

[learflyer]

Forgive me if this has been posted before, but I'm thinking about an Aviation Management course at riddle, FIT or somewhere else via a correspondence course. So far this thread has talked mostly about an "aeronautical science" degree being "useless". "What do you guys think about "Aviation Management"? I think being an Airport Manager might be a good back up plan. So in my opinion, if you want a "useful" non flying job as a backup, maybe Airport management might be a useful degree to get. Thanks.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Now geography (w/ an emphasis on cartography), that is awesome for a pilot to have. You look out the window, and BAM!, geography everywhere. I would love to fly with you, Typhoon! I could learn so much from you.

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not...

 

[stillaboo]

NO, it's not sarcasm. I would love to fly with a geography or cartography guy.

My grandfather was a geologist; he has an obsession with maps and rocks. When I flew with him, he spent most of the flight pointing out all the places he'd worked. He'd never seen the areas he had been paid to survey in the 60's from the air before. Apparently, airline's don't do circles and second passes over remote areas of the country at the behest of the passenger. IT was great that I could provide him with the opportunity to see his interest from a new perspective.

Incidentally, he thought it would have been alot easier to find oil from the air.

 

[bobbysamd]

Non-Aeronautical Science degree

What do you guys think about "Aviation Management"? I think being an Airport Manager might be a good back up plan. So in my opinion, if you want a "useful" non flying job as a backup, maybe Airport management might be a useful degree to get.

Sure, why not? That would be a good choice, though I have read on this board about Aeronautical Science majors getting jobs in airport management.

Other good aviation-related choices include Meteorology. The obvious career choice and path notwithstanding, met majors study physics, math and science. That background can qualify them as science teachers in school. Also, Aeronautical Engineering, for the same reason and others.

The long and short of it, again, is get a degree.