Why I'm Still a NO for the AirTran TA?

[Murphy]

After reviewing the TA DVD from the NPA, attending a Roadshow this week, talking with a NPA Board Member, and some of the people in my new hire class, I am still backing up my NO vote.

I could either vote for principles or vote for myself. I am sticking with principles for the following reasons.

1. Scope: I am not voting to relax scope to 86 seats and unlimited turboprops. I am not going to allow the possibility of RJ Captains flying 86 airplanes for AirTran as AirTran Express for less than what major airline FOs make in pay.

2. Reserve. 75 hours min guarantee and a lot of work rules. Aggressive reserve pickup windows the day prior, reserve "i want to fly", reserve "pass", and real time insight via computer into who is on reserve, their block, and their availability.

3. Health Care Costs: Premiums frozen for half the length of the contract.

4. Block Out. Stays at Door closed. I'm not going to be a part of throwing another employee group under the bus as a result of our negotiations.

5. New Hire Pay. I'm not going to put myself in a position where I look across the cockpit at a new hire FO and tell him/her that I used to make almost 5 bucks an hour more for doing your job 4 years ago.

6. I'm not throwing Lear70 under the bus.

Allegedly only 80% have voted. All you fence sitters need to crap or get off the pot on this vote.

 

[Stewie]

After reviewing the TA DVD from the NPA, attending a Roadshow this week, talking with a NPA Board Member, and some of the people in my new hire class, I am still backing up my NO vote.

I could either vote for principles or vote for myself. I am sticking with principles for the following reasons.

1. Scope: I am not voting to relax scope to 86 seats and unlimited turboprops. I am not going to allow the possibility of RJ Captains flying 86 airplanes for AirTran as AirTran Express for less than what major airline FOs make in pay.

2. Reserve. 75 hours min guarantee and a lot of work rules. Aggressive reserve pickup windows the day prior, reserve "i want to fly", reserve "pass", and real time insight via computer into who is on reserve, their block, and their availability.

3. Health Care Costs: Premiums frozen for half the length of the contract.

4. Block Out. Stays at Door closed. I'm not going to be a part of throwing another employee group under the bus as a result of our negotiations.

5. New Hire Pay. I'm not going to put myself in a position where I look across the cockpit at a new hire FO and tell him/her that I used to make almost 5 bucks an hour more for doing your job 4 years ago.

6. I'm not throwing Lear70 under the bus.

Allegedly only 80% have voted. All you fence sitters need to crap or get off the pot on this vote.

Here! Here! Exactly. Sticking to my NO!!

 

[TV9Driver]

with all the negative implications that this contract has for FO's here, i'm surprised how many FO's are voting "yes"

 

[funnyman12]

i was on the fence originally, but after reviewing the reserve rules and scope I voted no. The concern I have is this will be very close. I would rather have the TA be ratified than it be voted down by a 48 to 52%. If it goes down by a small margin we are gonna get another piece of ******************** handed to us next year. We are pretty much a rock in a hard place.

 

[Stewie]

with all the negative implications that this contract has for FO's here, i'm surprised how many FO's are voting "yes"

How many? I have not talked to one who thinks this is even close to a descent TA.

 

[BID]

86 seat aircraft!

 

[TV9Driver]

about 8-10.... that's a large percentage for 1 person to run into during the course of work.....it's really worrying me that this POS might actually pass...

 

[easydoesit]

Ladies and gents- I am sorry to say that this TA will pass by a small margin. I have heard too many people with yes votes. I know at least half the people who say they are voting no will vote yes. They just say "I'm voting no" beacause it is easier than defending why they are voting yes.

So what's gonna be the name of our regional carrier?

Also, please send money to Sandra Davis. She has a really tough form of Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. She needs all the help she can get. Again, she has no short term disability. All small amounts add up to something extremely helpful. Karma....

 

[~~~^~~~]

So what's gonna be the name of our regional carrier?

Val-U-Prop?

Unfortunately the name will be
air Tran Airways
..service by Mesa, ASA, SkyWest, Republic, Chautauqua, Big Sky, GoJets, TransStates, Freedom, United, Big Al's Flight School, Express Jet, Delta Connection Academy. also known as "the" academy, Scenic Air, Allegheny, Piedmont, Mid Atlantic, Mid Coast, Coastal, PSA, Piedmont, Chautauqua, Aeroflot and Kit Darby's AirInc, Inc., LLC.

 

[Old Crow]

Prince Akeem... What are your thoughts? Are you one of those newbie Yes men that all these bold senior (7yr. Ahem...) Capt's are talking about?

 

[ATLplt]

How the hell could you be new and vote yes? You just walked into some of the best reserve pay you'd probably ever see at any airline. A yes vote takes that away immediately. Way to shoot yourselves in the foot.

 

[Lear70]

My bet. 65/35 against.

I hope I'm wrong, and it's more like 80/20 against. We'll see in about 13 hours, 48 minutes...

Also, please send money to Sandra Davis. She has a really tough form of Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. She needs all the help she can get. Again, she has no short term disability. All small amounts add up to something extremely helpful.

[email protected]

She can give you all the info for mailing the checks to her trust fund set up through the company.

So far I have over $200 bucks of the money I've received earmarked for her specifically at the request of the senders and some of my own; the check's going out first thing on Monday to Ashley.

Her suffering kind of puts everything in perspective.

Hope everyone makes it a great contract for her to return to!

 

[curtis46]

You guys are way too pessimistic.this thing will
go down 80/20.keep the faith
vote NO.

 

[Murphy]

Out of 7 people I talked to today while working the phones. From my new hire class, 4 NOs and 3 YESs. We are 2 year FOs.

 

[-9Capt]

Going down 70/30.

reserve pay.
sap1 reserve coverage limits.
scope issues.
insurance premiums increase at 3X inflation.
loss of DH on 1st available back to domicile
wheels rolling vs door closed.
trip pick up while on vacation requires approval.
pay that doesn't keep pace with inflation.
still have ready reserve.
grievance process too long/givebacks.
lost compensatory day off after 2am if > 12 days off.
no per diem increase for over 9 years.

And did I mention we made money for the last 8 straight years in a row?

Do you really want to be known as the first pilot group to take backwards steps during times of prosperity?

 

[T3700]

I talked to an FO this week who basically said "I trust the company when they say they need these concessions to stay profitable" He also thought a certain FO deserved to be fired for being so vocal in his opposition to the TA. "If you put a big target on yourself, you deserve what you get". Sad to think his vote cancelled out mine.

 

[CarRamRod]

No,No,No and Hell no!

I guess I really wasted my time. I thought that if I voted no and then logged off and relogged on and voted no again it would put another no vote in the box.....oops. I guess doing this 3700 times was really a waste of my time. But I will tell you that after doing it it put a really big smile on my face every time I submitted it...

Keep the faith......Vote no on this POS..

 

[9rj9]

???

When will the results of the TA voting be posted ?

 

[labatt]

When will the results of the TA voting be posted ?

Should be out a little after noon. I think the recall results were out around 1330-1400. It's been pretty quiet on the line and at the roadshows. Quite a few more yes votes than I would have expected.

The NPA email last night saying only 78% of eligible voters had voted was disappointing.

 

[Kharma Police]

I guess I really wasted my time. I thought that if I voted no and then logged off and relogged on and voted no again it would put another no vote in the box.....oops. I guess doing this 3700 times was really a waste of my time. But I will tell you that after doing it it put a really big smile on my face every time I submitted it...

Keep the faith......Vote no on this POS..

Who do you think you are, a Democrat?

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Lear this vote is for you - NOO!!!!-:beer:

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

up to 83% voted now.

 

[AFcitrus]

I disagree

I would rather have the TA be ratified than it be voted down by a 48 to 52%. If it goes down by a small margin we are gonna get another piece of ******************** handed to us next year. We are pretty much a rock in a hard place.

I know where you are coming from with this statement but I disagree. What we have now is infinitely better than TA2. TA2 meets the bar in only one of the 4 major areas that Wilson Polling showed the pilots want:

More Compensation - NO - Pay increases are less than Cost of Living increases and further reduced by reserve pay/work rule changes. Furthermore their is no payback for the cost of living the company has cost us the last 2.5 years of lolly-gagging around and not getting serious about a contract. (they had no incentive until the bankers needed some labor stability for loans on mergers/buyouts)

Lower Health Care costs- NO - Health care will actually increase during the duration of this new TA. Additionally, TA2 takes away thousands of dollars worth of emergency sick bank in the event you suffer a sickness/injury that takes you out for a month or two.

Quality of Life improvements - NO - I can't find any improvements but there are several areas that are declines. RR after reserve assignment, linesholders can get 5 hour RR at outstation waiting for last DH home, no more build-up lines (on reserve longer), and the list goes on.

Retirement - YES - this is the only area that I see improvements in. Unfortunately these improvements are way offset by MASSIVE losses in other areas.

Yes, I think it would be best if this PIG went down in flames. But I would still be happier to see it defeated by 1% than to live under this concessionary TA for the next 7 years. If you haven't voted NO yet, please do so in the next 57 minutes. If you have voted Yes, realize that this TA will be defeated with or without your NO vote. You still have 55 minutes to send the company a message of solidarity it needs to hear. And if you are planning on voting Yes regardless of what I've just said - don't vote for another 60 minutes.

Have a nice day. VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PRINCE AKEEM]

Prince Akeem... What are your thoughts? Are you one of those newbie Yes men that all these bold senior (7yr. Ahem...) Capt's are talking about?

"Yes," is the answer to the question of whether I appreciate my job and am happy to be at AirTran. With that being said, I plan on a long career here and who knows, this may be my final destination. Therefore I voted NO about 3 weeks ago, due to the fact that I want 'to do it right.' With a much longer upgrade ahead of me and the fact that once I finish this reserve period, the next one will be much longer, who in their right mind would vote these rules in?! Every week I fly with an average of 3 CA's and my talley seems to be 75% "NO." I always thank them for taking care of us FO's and for seeing 'the bigger picture.' I sent out my own little 'get out the vote' text to the 30 FL #'s that I have 2 weeks ago and recieved all NO replys. Of the 20 or so FO's that I personally know all our united in voting NO as we should be. I hope this answers any ?'s as to where Akeem stands!
Quote from Lt.Col. Slade (Scent of a Women): "The boy's character is STRONG!!!"

 

[gearup5]

i predict 74% No

 

[PCL_128]

i predict 74% No

I'm not quite as optimistic. I predict 59% NO, making it difficult to have any leverage going forward.

 

[meanstreak]

It's 12:22. Why don't we know yet? 83%, truly pathetic. Anyway of listing names of people who didn't vote. just kidding.

 

[CarRamRod]

It's offical

With 87% of the eligible pilots voting the Tentative Agreement has failed by a margin of 61.37% to 38.63%

Enough Said!....Lets move on and hire Lear70 as our negotiation leader. He deserves the pay more than the last schlup that was paid very well and didn't do scheit. I just whish we had 100% voting instead of just approx 83%. Is there any way to identify those who just didn't give a crap, and decided that they did not need to vote and kick them out. Or at least post their names so they can be heard from. I think it is insane that anyone within this pilot group that did not vote is a coward and should be held accountable for their inactions.........Pass the TA and give US the contract that we deserve, and give the non voters the POS TA2 -20%. Maybe that would wake them up........

I'm just glad it went down. Even by a small margin....Keep the Faith!