Why do you like to fly bizjets?

[Gearmunky]

FWIW, I like my job because we are very small, and I'm pretty lucky to be there. I could barely touch a regional with my time, and I started at a salary that I couldn't with a regional. My father was an Army brat growing up and outside of the professional bass tournaments he fishes, hates to travel. I love going places and this is the way to go. Three weeks ago I was learning to snowboard in Aspen and last weekend I was drinking Red Stripe and eating Oxtail in Jamaica. Hopefully, next week its Mexico and I'll be showing a grouper or barracuda whose boss.

The personal level of corporate flying is great. I know what my boss likes and it's that simple if he needs something extra no one is bothered to go out of our way. They treat us well, and I also don't ever, ever wear a tie and to me that's worth a lot. Our flight dept doesn't really fly in the summer so I can concentrate on fishing then and use my vacation in the winter to shoot ducks, I couldn't do that anywhere else.

 

[semperfido]

i don't want to say too much good about corp flying....afraid i'll jinx it.

 

[hoop]

Interesting.........

Hey guys,

I've been following this thread closely, as I am a VERY low timer, and wanting to get in the corporate game. I'm 33, and have a "good" government job, but the cube farm is no place to spend the next 30 years waiting to retire. I have always wanted to get my PPL for fun, but during the course of training, I have realized that this has been a wonderful learning experience and extremely enjoyable. I lurk around on the corporate board daydreaming of how to obtain the goal of a corporate job. I have never even considered the airlines, and when I hear you guys talk about your jobs, it re-affirms my thoughts on the airlines.
The part that bothers me is when I look at your times. Good Lord, it would take me over 30 years to get 8000 hrs at the rate I'm going! It seems you all have some really high times, and I'm sure that you have worked at this game for years on end. How many hours are exceptable for an entry level corporate job? I realize that the network game is a huge part of the corporate gig, but how does one go about getting in the "network circle"? I have seen some of the suggestions of the pt. 135 gigs, and the fractionals. Obviously, I'm still have a ton to learn on the road to ratings, and plan on getting the CFI and instructing, but how does one get the most hours in the quickest time possible? Will getting a late start with a flying career hurt a guys chances in the corporate world? I'm just trying to get a feel for how I need to taylor my "plan of attack", and appreciate any advice!

Thanks,

Hoop

 

[semperfido]

first, it is never too late.
second, i had 900 hrs when i was hired into my 1st great king air job followed by a whole bunch of of neat planes and better jobs. it is 20 yrs later and still going strong on the finest corp plane out there.

if it is what you really want, then do it.

 

[miles otoole]

I work for one of the 30th largest corporations in the world. We have so much money that even if the management wanted to destroy the company (like most airline managements want to do), I will be retired before they can do it. What good is a $300K per year airline job if the job doesn't last but a few years? In corporate you get a good, long term stability job, and lots of stock options that are actually going to be worth something in the future (unlike a mojor airline retirement fund).

RIIIIGHTTTTT. Ever hear of WorldCom? Remember, it's all cyclical. Nothin' like stock options.

 

[G100driver]

it is 20 yrs later and still going strong on the finest corp plane out there

Funny, I thought you flew a Gulfstream

 

[saviboy]

Funny, I thought you flew a Gulfstream

I would have thought a Falcon 7x

 

[semperfido]

i have flown the best Dassault has to offer (they are very nice), but the G is still king.

 

[pa56pa]

I'm 33, and have a "good" government job, but the cube farm is no place to spend the next 30 years waiting to retire.

Obviously, I'm still have a ton to learn on the road to ratings, and plan on getting the CFI and instructing, but how does one get the most hours in the quickest time possible? Will getting a late start with a flying career hurt a guys chances in the corporate world? I'm just trying to get a feel for how I need to taylor my "plan of attack", and appreciate any advice!

I had a desk job once... hated it... then got into Southwest Airlines and was there for 12 years as an Ops Supervisor. I loved the company and the job, and got to know soooooo many pilots, flight attendants, mangement, etc. At 33, I decided to get a commercial license and take flying seriously. I started out at a charter company working part time as a "flight controller" until an SIC position for a Citation II opened up. I eventually quit SWA in 2000 (and left there with a nice huge lump of stocks and $$, thanks Herb....) and started to pursue flying bizjets full-time. Now I am loving the company I work for, and the people I fly with.

Here in the US, the airlines has a "60 yr old" cap ... We dont.... something to think about...

 

[psysicx]

I would imagine that corp pilots have more time off then the airlines.And it seems lots of people have gotten good jobs without knowing someone.

 

[Brett Hull]

And it seems lots of people have gotten good jobs without knowing someone.

And somehow that continues to elude me.

 

[psysicx]

Don't worry your time will tell.What part of the country are you in?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Each to his own...

I believe there are certain personalities that fit better in the airline world, and others that are better off in corporate. Personally, I'm an airline guy. I had a decent job flying a Citation Part 91 with a reasonable salary, but it really didn't meet up to my expectations for a long term career. I decided that I would be happier with the more regimented environment of 121 flying, and I have been very happy with that decision. The thing I enjoy most about 121 is being able to put my full attention into being a better pilot. Everything I do revolves around my cockpit duties. In the corporate world, unless its a very large flight department, being a pilot is often a very small part of the job. Corporate flying is also very diverse, so you have to be careful not to get yourself into a bad situation. I have friends that have dream jobs flying corporate, and I've also had friends that have had corporate jobs from hell. The best thing you can do prior to taking a corporate job is talk to the other pilots in the department, and if you're replacing someone who left prior to you...find out why the other guy left. Best of luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

"The thing I enjoy most about 121 is being able to put my full attention into making myself a better pilot."


.

please tell...which airline??

 

[Brett Hull]

Don't worry your time will tell.What part of the country are you in?

The worst part - Alabama.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

What does it matter? My point is, when I go to work I'm able to be nearly 100% focused on flying. Just like anyone else, I'm always learning, and I want to improve as a pilot every day. As a corporate pilot, I felt like my focus was often on other duties such as keeping a hangar maintained or worrying if the folks in the back had the newspaper that they wanted. The training wasn't as often or as rigorous, nor was the flying as challenging. It just wasn't for me, thats all. Thats not to say it isn't for everyone else or that every corporate job is like the one I had. Like I put in the subject of my reply, "to each his own". That is my opinion, for what it is worth. Do with it as you wish.

 

[GEXDriver]

SkyBoy-

How much do you make and how much do you expect to make? The airline paradigm has changed and will never be what is was again. Corporate has not changed because it is based on another model and compensation continues to increase.

 

[Jetjohn]

Citation Shares

Anyone have any info on Citation Shares, how do they rate compared to the other fractionals?

 

[Lead Sled]

The training wasn't as often or as rigorous, nor was the flying as challenging.

You must be flying for some kind of airline. I've received better and more varied types of training flying corporate than I ever did at the majors. Granted, the majors are finally coming around and implimenting the type of training that we've had at the major training providers for years. As far as challenging goes, just how challenging is a takeoff followed by radar vectors to the departure gate followed by an arrival or radar vectors to an ILS - repeated ad nasium every day of your flying career? And we won't even talk about the time you have to spend away from home. (At the airline where I worked, the average pilot had been married 2.7 times. Hmmm... I wonder why?) You may think it's the bomb now, but let's have this same conversation in a few years. But you are right, what ever floats your boat.

'Sled

 

[SkyBoy1981]

SkyBoy-

How much do you make and how much do you expect to make? The airline paradigm has changed and will never be what is was again. Corporate has not changed because it is based on another model and compensation continues to increase.

Not enough. However, the 4th year pay where I am now will be the same as the 4th year pay that I was making at my corporate job. Only time will tell whether or not my decision was a mistake on a long term basis, but for the time being I am pleased with it. I'm still quite young, and have a long road ahead of me. My goal is to get on with SWA in the next 10 years or so, but I'm also aware of how difficult that can be to achieve. For the time being I'm doing just like anyone else in this business and holding on for the ride.

 

[wndshr]

SkyBoy-

How much do you make and how much do you expect to make? The airline paradigm has changed and will never be what is was again. Corporate has not changed because it is based on another model and compensation continues to increase.

yeah.....riiiiiiiight....that is what a lot of guys say when they get their feet wet in the corporate/airline world! but be sure to plan for the day when the sky will fall. have never met retired pilot who hasn't had at least a few jobs during his/her career!

i would be interested to poll how many guys at swa left for corporate jobs.....and vice versa????? anybody taking bets?????

 

[SkyBoy1981]

You must be flying for some kind of airline. I've received better and more varied types of training flying corporate than I ever did at the majors. Granted, the majors are finally coming around and implimenting the type of training that we've had at the major training providers for years. As far as challenging goes, just how challenging is a takeoff followed by radar vectors to the departure gate followed by an arrival or radar vectors to an ILS - repeated ad nasium every day of your flying career? And we won't even talk about the time you have to spend away from home. (At the airline where I worked, the average pilot had been married 2.7 times. Hmmm... I wonder why?) You may think it's the bomb now, but let's have this same conversation in a few years. But you are right, what ever floats your boat.

'Sled

Again, your corporate job is probably not even comparable to the one that I had. Corporate flying can be so diverse its almost impossible to sum it up in one lump as if it were all the same. When I flew corporate our flying was generally short legs in good weather. The training was one recurrent a year that only lasted a couple of days. So yes, to me the training at the airline is more rigorous, and the flying is more challenging. That may not be the case for you though. Again, I was posting my own personal experience, it doesn't reflect on the profession as a whole or what everyone else will experience.

 

[Lead Sled]

yeah.....riiiiiiiight....that is what a lot of guys say when they get their feet wet in the corporate/airline world! but be sure to plan for the day when the sky will fall. have never met retired pilot who hasn't had at least a few jobs during his/her career!

You've got a valid point, however it really doesn't matter what career field you choose - you're not going to have the stability that perhaps once existed. It's a rare pilot that hasn't been furloughed or layed off at least once. But is aviation any different than any other profession you choose? I've read that the average person has 3 or 4 major career changes during his working life. My brother is an engineer - he's worked for several different firms during his career. My point is, you should go into aviation because you love aviation - not for the money or the lifestyle. If you go into it for those reasons you will most likely be dissappointed. The glory days of airline flying - working 10 days a month and a $250K annual salary are probably gone forever.

'Sled

 

[Dep676]

The thing I enjoy most about 121 is being able to put my full attention into being a better pilot.

Do tell what airline. Also pass that on to the rest of the airline crews. All the airlining I do. There are a lot of guys that need to be paying attention to becoming a better pilot. I know the autopilots are not that rough. They could use a little lesson in climbs, descents and for the love of God a big help in adjusting the pressurization. They must just grab the controller and give a big turn. You can always tell after a bad landing or a big delay. The cockpit door doesn't even come open when you are getting off the plane. They do not want to see all the angry pax's. So do tell.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Do tell what airline. Also pass that on to the rest of the airline crews. All the airlining I do. There are a lot of guys that need to be paying attention to becoming a better pilot. I know the autopilots are not that rough. They could use a little lesson in climbs, descents and for the love of God a big help in adjusting the pressurization. They must just grab the controller and give a big turn. You can always tell after a bad landing or a big delay. The cockpit door doesn't even come open when you are getting off the plane. They do not want to see all the angry pax's. So do tell.

Exactly what is the intent of your post? The only purpose I can gather from it is to look like an arrogant jackass....if thats the case, you were successful. Nice work.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Exactly what is the intent of your post? The only purpose I can gather from it is to look like an arrogant jackass....if thats the case, you were successful. Nice work.

I just wanna know so I dont ride on the airline which you fly and are "learning to be a better pilot"

.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I just wanna know so I dont ride on the airline which you fly and are "learning to be a better pilot"

.

Congrats...that makes 2 of you. First of all, if you're going to quote me, then quote me correctly. I said "making myself a better pilot". But then again, I'm sure the learning process is over for you now, as you're an expert Galaxy driver. I forgot to mention that most airline crews are a hell of a lot more fun to work with, and if I do get a dud like one of you two, who cares....I only have to put up with them for a few days. Anyway, I'm done with this thread. The purpose of my initial reply was to offer a constructive opinion. Unfortunately there are always a few egotistical idiots on this board that feel the need to show their "superiority" to all. If you wish to continue your childish remarks, so be it. I hope that the information that I have provided can be useful to the original creator of this post.

 

[Dep676]

Congrats...that makes 2 of you. First of all, if you're going to quote me, then quote me correctly. I said "making myself a better pilot". But then again, I'm sure the learning process is over for you now, as you're an expert Galaxy driver. I forgot to mention that most airline crews are a hell of a lot more fun to work with, and if I do get a dud like one of you two, who cares....I only have to put up with them for a few days. Anyway, I'm done with this thread. The purpose of my initial reply was to offer a constructive opinion. Unfortunately there are always a few egotistical idiots on this board that feel the need to show their "superiority" to all. If you wish to continue your childish remarks, so be it. I hope that the information that I have provided can be useful to the original creator of this post.

Well son I think we may have hit some nerves, HUH? You might want to go back to your original post and look at what you posted. No where does it say "making myself a better pilot". Besides I quoted it right from your original post. Alos you guys get so wrapped up in your "cockpit duties". I think you forget there are people in the back.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

In my original post, it said "making myself a better pilot". That is what Gulfstream quoted in his original reply to me. After his condescending reply I edited my post to read "being a better pilot" as I remembered that there are so many vultures on this board with huge ego's that have nothing better to do than pick apart someone's words and belittle them with it. Its guys like you that drag these boards down to the point of being nearly useless. Thanks for your contributions to the topic, they have been much appreciated.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

There are a lot of guys that need to be paying attention to becoming a better pilot. I know the autopilots are not that rough. They could use a little lesson in climbs, descents and for the love of God a big help in adjusting the pressurization. They must just grab the controller and give a big turn

Oh, I can't speak for other's flying skills....as they all vary, I don't care what you fly or what set of regs its under. Our pressurzation system, as in most modern aircraft, is set it and forget it. We don't "adjust" anything. The bigger the tube, the more difficult it is to pressurize comfortably. Thats pretty fundamental.