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Why do you like to fly bizjets?

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wndshr said:
If you are single, there is no doubt in my mind that bizjet flying (Part 91/135) is better for all the previously mentioned reasons.....

However, if you are married with a family....airline flying is better hands down. Yes, it is more boring, but if you want to stay married, go to ALL the soccer/basketball games, have lots of control of your sked with over half the month off....its the way to go!

I have been in the Biz-Jet industry 11 years, I have been married over 11 years and have 2 kids... I haven't missed a Birthday, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter or New Years with them yet... My UAL neighbor down the street has missed far more than he has made, according to him... He has 8-9 years with UAL, about the same as I have at my current employer (Part 91)... And to top it off, he is making over $40k less than I am...
 
SAVIBOY...


as you can see....there are a lot of opinions out there...all have valid points. if you are looking for a well-rounded opinion, make sure you talk to someone who has done BOTH airline AND bizjet flying!!!
and better yet if you can talk to one who has gone from corporate to airlines...and another airlines to corporate. find out the pro/cons and go from there
 
Definitly!!

I couldn't imagine airline flying can be better on the family...

most corp guys I know fly 250-400hrs/yr.

Most corp flight departments are very quiet over the holidays. Hence most of the pilots are home with their families

(or traveling on the airlines to see family!!!)

someone has to fly us around...

;) .
 
Like any job, corporate aviation has its good employers and its bad ones. Overall the good ones tend to out number the bad ones. The lifestyle is different. It is not a regular job like a majority of the working public understand a regular job. And to survive it in this part of the industry you must have a love for it.

First of all you do not "fly" airplanes, you fly people. Remember that. You might be the greatest pilot out there, but if your passengers (who directly control your paycheck) are uncomfortable or scared, you are history there. Don't believe me? Spend some time talking with corporate pilots, and you'll hear stories of departments being closed down because a pilot ran an aircraft off the end of a runway with the owner's wife on board, Or the overhead light covers popping down on a hard landing. Or the like.

The corporate lifestyle depends on the company. Some run very scheduled operations. I had one job where I could tell where I was going by what day of the week it was. On the other hand, my present employer, each trip is a new adventure. Many companies you will not fly too far from home. Many will be day trips. Or you could end up going literally around the world. In many companies your regular stops will become like home to you. Or like my present employer, I have been to places like Kabul, Khartoum, Dubai, Sri Lanka, Tucson, Anchorage (in the winter) and what the H*** was the name of that place.

Some departments fly less than 400 hours a year. I have one job where I flew almost a 1000 hours a year. And it was strictly corporate. The average seems to be around 500 hours a year or so.

It seems a majority of the flight departments I have talked with have a pilot for each seat and that is it. For vacations and the like they tend to use contracters. There are spme departments out there that will run one pilot short, as they generally don't run both aircraft at the same time or if a single aircraft operation, don't fly that much and they use contractors to fill in.

As a corporate pilot, you generally are everything, catering, dispatch, maintenance control, scheduling, etc. For an around the world trip, you will spend thre or four days preparing for it. You just can't walk up to the aircraft 30 minutes prior. It is harder work, but to me it seems more rewarding.

At many companies, you will have as much or more face time with the CEO than most company vice presidents. That can work for or against you. There have been stories about pilots being fired because the new VP in charge of the department was afraid of the pilot's preceived power with the CEO. Just be aware of that.

As for equipment. It tends to be much better maintained than most airline equipment. More modern? In many cases, yes. But there are many companies out there running older equipment and quite happy with it. After all, if it is doing the job you bought it for well and isn't causing you any major problems, why replace it?

As for schdules, I know of only a couple of companies that do have schedules. A majority do not. Most will work with you on important things. But I have also been called out with 30 minutes notice. You have to remember, that the flight department is a cost center and it is there to provide a service to the rest of the company. And if the company feels that the department can not provide the service that they want and need, then the department disappears. So as corporate pilots we need to continually sell our depart to the other departments. The more other departments want to use our services the more secure our departments are. It will require you to be more flexible in your planning and scheduling.

And remember, right now the TSA is the best job guarantee we have. If they have any choice, they will only do the airline route once.

With that said, I will get off my soap box.
 
To echo some of the wisdom from previous posters, I have to say I love it when I get a complicated, multi-day, multi-stop trip where schedules are tight and having to plan everything out to a 'T'. Even more, the complex international trip (which I'm doing now) where you are handed a hundred pieces and it's my job to put them all together and, in both cases, have the entire mission come off without a hitch. I swear, if I couldn't fly the next best job in the house would be dispatch with an international operator!

Granted, all of us tire with the three day overnight to nowhere Kansas (or TEB! ;)), but with my company that is mixed with multi-day international trips or even domestic hot-spots like Vegas, etc.

I know guys flying King Air's that might hit only 30 different cities in an entire year but I'll tell ya, those are some of the most laid back, career satisfied folks I know.

2000Flyer
 
Hey 2000 how did the EASY type work with your existing 2000 type? Was it just an add on? Did you have to do the whole type all over including systems?
 
Falcon Capt said:
I have been in the Biz-Jet industry 11 years, I have been married over 11 years and have 2 kids... I haven't missed a Birthday, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter or New Years with them yet... My UAL neighbor down the street has missed far more than he has made, according to him... He has 8-9 years with UAL, about the same as I have at my current employer (Part 91)... And to top it off, he is making over $40k less than I am...

Excellent point. When I was at the airlines I worked CDO's every weekend and holiday. Since coming back to corporate, I have been home on every holiday, and only work one weekend per month.

At the airlines you fly 4 or 5 legs per day. I just spent 3 (all expense paid) days in LAS and 2 in LA doing whatever I pleased. You can't get layovers like that at the airlines.

Also, there are a few financially stable airlines out there, but most are a disaster. I work for one of the 30th largest corporations in the world. We have so much money that even if the management wanted to destroy the company (like most airline managements want to do), I will be retired before they can do it. What good is a $300K per year airline job if the job doesn't last but a few years? In corporate you get a good, long term stability job, and lots of stock options that are actually going to be worth something in the future (unlike a mojor airline retirement fund).

Corporate jobs are much tougher to get than airline jobs (the good ones anyway). There is low turnover. it is very selective, and you generally need to know somebody to get one. Start networking ASAP!
 
FWIW, I've been on both sides of the fence and I am a corporate pilot by choice. When it came to airline flying, once the novelty of flying big airplanes wore off it was actually a pretty sucky flying job. I went back to the corporate world 20 years ago and I've never looked back, nor regretted it. For the most part, I've flown state-of-the-art equipment and received first class training and lots of it - more than any 121 guy would receive. I've had the opportunity to fly all over the world.

One of my daughters is married to a son of a senior FEDEX MD-11 captain. He's alway bitchin and moaning about his job. I've also got plenty of airline pilot friends and all I ever hear from them is how bad "this" or "that" is. It's gotten to the point that I don't even talk to them about my job. They wouldn't believe it anyway - after all, unless you're fly'n "heavy airplanes" you don't have a real flying job.

Personally, I agree with all of those who like the variety, challenge, and the "hands on" aspects of corporate flying. If the only thing that I had to look forward to was flying a B737 or Airbus on domestic US/Canadian legs for an entire 30 year career I slit my wrists. (Well, not really; but I would probably become just like my buddies that have found themselves in that exact same position.)

There is one other point that I want to make. When I talk about corporate flying, I'm talking about exclusive part 91 operations. Any time you start talking 135 or fractional flying then you're talking sucky with a capital S.

'Sled
 
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Dep676 said:
Hey 2000 how did the EASY type work with your existing 2000 type? Was it just an add on? Did you have to do the whole type all over including systems?

3-1/2 weeks of beautiful FSI-Teterboro....FULL BLOWN INITIAL! We were hoping for a transition course but now we understand why it was a full type. A 5-day transition would have left us utterly useless in the EASy cockpit.

2000Flyer
 
FWIW, I like my job because we are very small, and I'm pretty lucky to be there. I could barely touch a regional with my time, and I started at a salary that I couldn't with a regional. My father was an Army brat growing up and outside of the professional bass tournaments he fishes, hates to travel. I love going places and this is the way to go. Three weeks ago I was learning to snowboard in Aspen and last weekend I was drinking Red Stripe and eating Oxtail in Jamaica. Hopefully, next week its Mexico and I'll be showing a grouper or barracuda whose boss.

The personal level of corporate flying is great. I know what my boss likes and it's that simple if he needs something extra no one is bothered to go out of our way. They treat us well, and I also don't ever, ever wear a tie and to me that's worth a lot. Our flight dept doesn't really fly in the summer so I can concentrate on fishing then and use my vacation in the winter to shoot ducks, I couldn't do that anywhere else.
 
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Interesting.........

Hey guys,

I've been following this thread closely, as I am a VERY low timer, and wanting to get in the corporate game. I'm 33, and have a "good" government job, but the cube farm is no place to spend the next 30 years waiting to retire. I have always wanted to get my PPL for fun, but during the course of training, I have realized that this has been a wonderful learning experience and extremely enjoyable. I lurk around on the corporate board daydreaming of how to obtain the goal of a corporate job. I have never even considered the airlines, and when I hear you guys talk about your jobs, it re-affirms my thoughts on the airlines.
The part that bothers me is when I look at your times. Good Lord, it would take me over 30 years to get 8000 hrs at the rate I'm going! It seems you all have some really high times, and I'm sure that you have worked at this game for years on end. How many hours are exceptable for an entry level corporate job? I realize that the network game is a huge part of the corporate gig, but how does one go about getting in the "network circle"? I have seen some of the suggestions of the pt. 135 gigs, and the fractionals. Obviously, I'm still have a ton to learn on the road to ratings, and plan on getting the CFI and instructing, but how does one get the most hours in the quickest time possible? Will getting a late start with a flying career hurt a guys chances in the corporate world? I'm just trying to get a feel for how I need to taylor my "plan of attack", and appreciate any advice!

Thanks,

Hoop
 
first, it is never too late.
second, i had 900 hrs when i was hired into my 1st great king air job followed by a whole bunch of of neat planes and better jobs. it is 20 yrs later and still going strong on the finest corp plane out there.

if it is what you really want, then do it.
 
sleepy said:
I work for one of the 30th largest corporations in the world. We have so much money that even if the management wanted to destroy the company (like most airline managements want to do), I will be retired before they can do it. What good is a $300K per year airline job if the job doesn't last but a few years? In corporate you get a good, long term stability job, and lots of stock options that are actually going to be worth something in the future (unlike a mojor airline retirement fund).

RIIIIGHTTTTT. Ever hear of WorldCom? Remember, it's all cyclical. Nothin' like stock options.
 
I'm 33, and have a "good" government job, but the cube farm is no place to spend the next 30 years waiting to retire.

Obviously, I'm still have a ton to learn on the road to ratings, and plan on getting the CFI and instructing, but how does one get the most hours in the quickest time possible? Will getting a late start with a flying career hurt a guys chances in the corporate world? I'm just trying to get a feel for how I need to taylor my "plan of attack", and appreciate any advice!

I had a desk job once... hated it... then got into Southwest Airlines and was there for 12 years as an Ops Supervisor. I loved the company and the job, and got to know soooooo many pilots, flight attendants, mangement, etc. At 33, I decided to get a commercial license and take flying seriously. I started out at a charter company working part time as a "flight controller" until an SIC position for a Citation II opened up. I eventually quit SWA in 2000 (and left there with a nice huge lump of stocks and $$, thanks Herb....) and started to pursue flying bizjets full-time. Now I am loving the company I work for, and the people I fly with.

Here in the US, the airlines has a "60 yr old" cap ... We dont.... something to think about...
 
I would imagine that corp pilots have more time off then the airlines.And it seems lots of people have gotten good jobs without knowing someone.
 

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