Why do they still come?

[F16fixer]

And that's the attitude that's going to keep bringing dumbasses back to UND and dropping 80,000-90,000 on flight training . Man I cannot stand flying with people who think they are better than someone else just because they are a pilot and carry that chip on their shoulder! I hope this is not you

How about the look on peoples face when you tell them your a pilot? At least you get respect (from most people) when the look at you like your superhuman and know something they dont.

 

[nickfaith]

From the perspective of someone in an industry that also is "fun and glamorous, and high paying"=

I worked in radio, then televison for the better part of the last 6 years. The most I ever made in radio in one year was $20,000. I worked 6-7 days a week, at least 55 hours every week. I know a few people that made over $40K, but maybe only one or two, and the station owned them.

In television, I was a director, the most I made in one year (after lots and lots of overtime) was $32,000. The station owned me, always on call, worked 6-7 days a week, and it was a very high stress job, with every mistake seen by 100,000 people, as welll as management that was always watching.

I'll take flying a plane, making similiar money, having at the very least 7-8 days off a month over either of those two careers. My second year, I'll make as much as I did in TV.

That's why people still come, because it is better than other careers. If all you've known is the CFI-Freight-REgional-major thing, I guess it isn't as great as you dreamed, but if you've worked in fields that are very boring, long hours, hardly a day off. It really doesn't sound so bad, and the money, depending on where you live, isn't really too bad after a couple years.

 

[RichardRambone]

And that's the attitude that's going to keep bringing dumbasses back to UND and dropping 80,000-90,000 on flight training . Man I cannot stand flying with people who think they are better than someone else just because they are a pilot and carry that chip on their shoulder! I hope this is not you

Thats absolutely not me. If you think your better than someone else b/c you dropped Dad's money and you happen to be a trainable monkey you're a fool. People outside of us pilots just are ignorant to the fact that we're people like everyone else but we happend to make a living flying b/c we happened to discovered it.

 

[F16fixer]

Hey, just checkin!
Best of luck

On a lighter note I heard that Pinnacle might be receiving 70 seaters by the end of the year and hiring is going to boom again (there anyway). In reality it will probably end up like Mesabas CRJ deal and go in the toilet. This came from one of the members in my flying club that flys for them. Just rumors, but that's better than more furlough rumors!

Thats absolutely not me. If you think your better than someone else b/c you dropped Dad's money and you happen to be a trainable monkey you're a fool. People outside of us pilots just are ignorant to the fact that we're people like everyone else but we happend to make a living flying b/c we happened to discovered it.

 

[11thHour]

Because, as much as the industry has gone downhill, it's still better than most of the other rat race jobs/careers out there. Even normally respected careers such as lawyer/doctors are starting to get their share of $hit. My uncle is a family doctor, he hates it. My aunt is a dentist, she hates it (although she does make good money). Job cuts, pay freezes, pension cuts, etc etc, are becoming the norm in nearly every industry out there. Not just pilots are feeling the crunch. My buddy from college has a decent paying ($80,000/yr)IT job, guess what? He's trying to change careers! He works 70 - 80- hours, PER WEEK! Face it, the notion of a plush dream job is fading, in the end, they're all just that, a job.

 

[Irish Pilot]

No matter how long my days are, no matter how ugly my FO, no matter how much Dispatch pisses me off, no matter how many times scheduling gives me the shaft, no matter my less than perfect paycheck, no matter how big my school debt...

It beats workin for a living.

I too have entertained the notion of maybe leaving flying for a higher paying job. I dont think I can do it...but if I ever did I would certainly be doing it with the knowledge that nothing else is going to give me as much happiness as far as a career goes...yes maybe more money and more time off...but nothing quite as enjoyable. I feel for you (mostly regional guys it seems) people who truly seem to hate your job. I fear that it may take a large sacrifice (leaving a job you love but just dont know it) to find out just how much you love flying...even at your current position.

I wish I could drop that "If you are this pissed off you probably dont belong in the pilot world - arent cut out for it." It can be a cruel, crummy industry...theres no two ways about it. I also wish I could say that if you love flying so much you should be willing to bend over backwards to do it, and to an extent that is true...but dont let another person (or company, or airline, etc.) belittle your experience, training, and devotion...dont let them interpret your passion for flying to mean you will do it for next to nothing!

Nonetheless. If you really love flying work hard and focus on what is important to you. If career satisfaction doesnt rank that high maybe its time for you to shift your focus to something that is more supportive to family life. My wife and I talk about me getting out of flying every once in awhile (though I have only been flying professionally for 3 years.) but once it gets down to it she says...

"I know it may seem like the right road to leave flying, but you know you wont be happy at home if you are not truly happy at work. Most likely anything other than flying is going to have you pissed off all the time."

Maybe so. Maybe its better to be a disgruntled pilot than a pissed off person. I think it is.

I will certainly reinforce the notion that if you got into flying to make $200,000 a year and only work a few days a month it may be time to walk away. But if flying airplanes makes you feel like a kid in a toystore...keep working with it! I truly think things will work out in the long run.

Anyway...enough of my ramblings lol. When push comes to shove a bad day of flying is always better than a good day at "work" or something like that

Best of luck to all of you. For those of you who do love flying and can bring that passion to work everyday I really look forward to flying with you.

My current job sounds better and better every day. I just wish it was back home!

 

[ex j-41]

You forgot!

You could follow us around on Thanksgiving and Christmas day living in a hotel and starving because all the restaraunts are closed for the holidays to let their workers spend the time with their families. And best of all, you could show us getting Junior Manned to fly another 24 hours when we finally think we are going to go home and play with our badly neglected families!

You hit the nail right on the head.....

but you forgot the company christmas card (Fax memo)....the one that says....

"If you call in sick you are fired!"

 

[mother fokker]

Why do they still come? No boss looking over your shoulder, not sitting in a cubicle all day. Lot of reasons.
You could leave the industry and go down the road I just left. The military is hiring. Your wage will be close to regional pay. Small differences though. You now serve a cause that is not based around your wants or welfare. Self-sacrifice becomes away of life. You would tear your body up to the point after 20 years not much you could do. I only speak of the military because that is all I really know. You ask why do they still come? This profession is not physically demanding. I had major back surgery, reconstructive surgery on my right leg and face, and I can do it. I'm not condoning the Q/L and pay in the industry. But when you ask why do they still come? Well I think its a no brainer......

Let's keep riding the bobsled to the bottom. When you apply at Wal mart (not the corporate flying department, instead, the Frontline Greeter position will welcome your Ward Cleaver personality) at least you can attest to what a groovey team player attitude you have in the interview.

 

[schoolio]

Why?

Why?

Let me tell you about my last job. I went to work between 6-7am most days. Usually left about 9pm. Usually took 30 minutes for lunch, if I was lucky. Worked for a boss whose philosophy was essentially "screw family, work comes first". I logged more hours working with Excel and Powerpoint in one year than most of us will fly in our careers. I got to fix severe problems that existed when I arrived at the organization, yet received zero credit or acknowledgment for doing so, and in fact got crapped on even more by idiots that didn't understand the systems we worked with. I got to work weekends and holidays, and about once a month for at least a week at a time (on average), got to sleep in a tent.

And about once a month, as a rated aviator, I got to fly for 2 hours. If I was lucky. But I was still expected to be as proficient as the guys who were flying two, three, four times a week.

I was an Army Aviator (laugh). I was also the battalion logistics officer. The pay wasn't bad at all (about $72K a year incl. flight pay, but no bonuses for commissioned Army aviators). In 7 years I flew 550 hours, 250 of those were in flight school the first year. I fought and fought to try to get designated a PIC, but as chance would have it, I never got the opportunity, even after several very senior PICs vouched for my abilities.

What did I have to look forward to upon getting out if I hadn't decided to pursue a flying career? Becoming a corporate slave, with similar work patterns as I had experienced in the Army (minus deployments and field time). I could have tried grad school, but that would lead to the same path.

Yeah sure, the days will probably suck when you work 14+ and get paid crap, but you're getting paid to do what you love to do. Maybe I'm jaded, because I still absolutely love flying, but at least I know in my heart that flying is what I want to do for a living.

I know, I know, I signed on the dotted line, I did my time, and now I'm done. Do I regret the Army? Not at all. If it weren't for the Army, I wouldn't be where I am today, I wouldn't have met my wife, etc etc. I served my time, I'm proud of that, but I didn't want to do that job for another minute.

But I guess the bottom line, and answer to your question, is because I love to fly, and can't imagine doing anything else for the rest of my life.

 

[PHXFLYR]

The only way you will be truly happy in ANY job is if you have not only the desire to do it, but the PASSION to do it ,too. Lose the passion and the most exciting,well paying job you can find will become nothing more than that.A job.



PHXFLYR

 

[pilotyip]

Irish, Exactly! That is why you become a pilot.

 

[Papa Woody]

How come nobody mentioned the stews?

It burns when I pee.....is that normal?

 

[atlcrashpad]

PHXFLYR hit it on the Head

PHXFLYR,

You hit it on the Head with the word "Passion". If you do not have passion for your job, it's just a job. I look forward to working everyday, I have passion for my job. The pay is not too bad (7 yr Capt) and I have ARNG gig on the side. Minus deployments (OIF) it's not too bad either.

 

[k2774]

I'm pretty sure the average age of those responding is <26. As you get older priorities change and you will begin to realize that 50-60K is not a lot of money, ESPECIALLY if you have a family. And let me tell you, there are plenty of jobs out there where you don't have to sit in front of a computer....where the salaries are pretty good.....and that you could enjoy. You just have to searh and be flexible.

Has anyone thought about pursuing graduate degrees in the sciences and engineering, or going to college for that matter. Plumbers, Electricians, AC/Refrigeration, Carpenters, etc. have the opportunity to make loads of money, but you have to be willing to WORK. Railroad Engineers/Conductors top out at 90-100K and there is massive hiring at the railroads. Has anybody thought about being entreprenuers(sp)?

I know flying is a love or hate thing....believe me, I was there. You couldn't tell me ten/fifteen years ago that i wouldn't be flying a B757 for Delta, but things have changed. I hope you realize that if you hve spent 50-80K, even 35K on flight training, and have to suffer though MANY years of making 20K plus/minus a few thousand, you have not gotten a good return on your investment. Don't do this at your parents/wife/husband/love one's expense. THINK....THINK.....THINK. BE OPEN TO OTHER POSSIBILITIES.

It bothers me to see my friends in their early to mid thirties not being able to live off of their salaries. Something has to change.

 

[Papa Woody]

Don't do this at your parents/wife/husband/love one's expense.

...But my parents/wife/love one's might have S3C travel bennies on Delta!

Whoop da doo!

 

[pilotyip]

$100K is good pay

$90-$100K is a good annual salary, I do not know many people, except major airline Captains, that make more than that number. My brother, master's in business, has been in General Motors management for nearly 30 yrs. He is a GM-7.5 or something like that, just below where you get a company car. He does not make over a 100K. These fairy tails of $150-$200K salary jobs just laying around waiting for someone to pick them up are over blown. In fact the guy who I know who makes the most money is my brother -in-law, a high school grad who runs his own muffler shop. If you like to fly and can live on $100K this is a great career. All of our pliots who have been at USA Jet for 10 years can exceed that number if they want, so flying for a living can still make those numbers.

 

[BR549]

$90-$100K is a good annual salary, I do not know many people, except major airline Captains, that make more than that number. My brother, master's in business, has been in General Motors management for nearly 30 yrs. He is a GM-7.5 or something like that, just below where you get a company car. He does not make over a 100K. These fairy tails of $150-$200K salary jobs just laying around waiting for someone to pick them up are over blown. In fact the guy who I know who makes the most money is my brother -in-law, a high school grad who runs his own muffler shop. If you like to fly and can live on $100K this is a great career. All of our pliots who have been at USA Jet for 10 years can exceed that number if they want, so flying for a living can still make those numbers.

Randy, the ONLY way someone at USAJet can make $100K is to be a total whore and fly their a$$ off. You will have no outside life as you will be working all the time to make that kind of money. The whole point is to make that kind of money and more without having to bust your a$$ to get it. It's not worth it to be gone 25+ days a month.

 

[Tram]

The whole point is to make that kind of money and more without having to bust your a$$ to get it.

Doesn't that sound a bit like "I want to make lots of money, but I don't want to work hard for it?"

If your looking for a way to "make lots of money and not bust your a$$ for it" i think you'd going to be sorely disappointed..

 

[wheelsup]

Doesn't that sound a bit like "I want to make lots of money, but I don't want to work hard for it?"

If your looking for a way to "make lots of money and not bust your a$$ for it" i think you'd going to be sorely disappointed..

I'd rather work 1/2 less and be paid 2x more than work 2x more and get paid 1/2 less. I think that's where they were coming from.

Anyone having a decent wage can make $100k/yr, they just have to work 18 hour days 7 days a week. What kind of a lifestyle is that? I don't like working at all, let alone 30 days a month!

~wheelsup

 

[NYCPilot]

I believe that most of the negative responses about ones present airline career come from younger pilots who went into aviation at an early age. Someone who probably got their ratings young and may or may not have gone to college. This person has probably not worked in any other field other than aviation and now that they've been in it for awhile are seeking greener pastures. Tired of aviation and looking for something better.

On the other side are those who seem more optimistic, more content with making a career at the regionals and a salary that is between 50K - 80K at this level. Most of these pilots are those who are a little older and HAVE worked the other jobs that the former group of pilots want to get into, to make better money and have a better QOL.

I happen to fall into the latter group.

Those of us who have worked in offices especially corporate ones, really dread it in comparison to flying. The money is good, the benefits are good and the QOL is very acceptable. But it sucks, even with all the perks that come with it. You’re just not happy being in this environment. You begin to question it all. Sometimes it takes a few years of working in this world to really appreciate what its like to be flying for a living. After making some money, you realize that happiness has a greater value and so you aspire to maybe one day fly for a living. I think most guys who have, are a little older and have worked other jobs, are more content with the lifestyle of a professional pilot and more willing to stick it out.

When you’re a young pilot you see things differently and have high hopes of making quick upgrades big money and a great QOL. When you realize it’s not coming to that you become disillusioned. Those of you who have started young and become that 23 year old captain, you’re lucky. Many people wish they could have done that.

I don’t doubt that those who drop out of the flying and work some office job or whatever, after a few years away will regret leaving. Maybe the money is a little better, but don’t expect to find happiness in a few extra bucks. Being happy and enjoying your job is something that you will realize is paramount.


HEALTH, HAPPINESS & MONEY (In that order)