Why do Heavies ask for wind checks?

[ifly4food]

Here's my theory

In my experience at ATL, the pilots doing this are mostly trying to prod ATC. They'll ask how long the final is when they are mad at being vectored out 20 miles but don't have the cajones to really complain. They'll ask what's the sequence for the same reasons.
As for the wind checks, some are mad about being made to land with a tailwind, and that's the wimpy way of pointing it out. Others are just dorks who have an IRS readout of the exact winds in front of them, but want the EXACT readout of the runway 200 feet below them. Maybe they think it makes them sound important or something. I know we make fun of them, and our little planes are much more susceptible to wind though you rarely hear us asking for wind checks. We just bite the bullet and fly the airplane. What a concept.

 

[profile]

Ifly,

Judging from your list of aircraft flown, you really are talking of something that you do not understand. Let me lay it out for you:

1. Heavy jets are MORE effected by wind changes than the small airplane you fly. The aircraft's inertia will keep it moving at a constant ground speed when wind changes close to the ground. A wind a 500' that's 10 kts stronger than the surface will have the effect of a 10 kt decrease close in, and that will direction show on the ASI.

2. Miles to run. In the UK and other areas ATC routinely gives us "miles to run" for our descent planning. The question of how long the final is is for the same reason -- descent planning. No point getting right down and burn more gas (that's another difference between the big jets and the aircraft you fly).

As to the post above on the touchdown speeds, yes, getting that slow can result in a tailstrike and not enough energy to recover. Also, the IAS at stall is not the same as CAS.

 

[TurboS7]

Let's be real.In a heavy you only get one landing a month so it needs to be perfect. Plus the PNF doesn't want any blame to be placed on him if it is a cruncher. Narrow bodies are more fun.

 

[Guam360]

This is ultimately about Delta right?

SDdriver, I'll second that, 30 knots plus and full ailerons.

 

[SDdriver]

Im telling ya..wheew, it get harry sometimes. If I am starting down the shoot and getting the crap kicked out of me I will sure ask for a wind check, hell I do it all the time. Most I have ever landed in in the Shorts was about 24kts, when I finally got the thing to quit skipping across the runway, I think my legs were quivering...That thing does not like crosswinds.

Long live the BOX..

SD

 

[Boeingman]

In my experience at ATL, the pilots doing this are mostly trying to prod ATC. They'll ask how long the final is when they are mad at being vectored out 20 miles but don't have the cajones to really complain. They'll ask what's the sequence for the same reasons.
As for the wind checks, some are mad about being made to land with a tailwind, and that's the wimpy way of pointing it out. Others are just dorks who have an IRS readout of the exact winds in front of them, but want the EXACT readout of the runway 200 feet below them. Maybe they think it makes them sound important or something. I know we make fun of them, and our little planes are much more susceptible to wind though you rarely hear us asking for wind checks. We just bite the bullet and fly the airplane. What a concept.

I know from your profile you have a plethora of heavy jet experience, but the issues you are whining about actually are valid for turbojet pilots. Profile summed them up quite well but....

As far as the dork comment, then count me in as one as well. Any question on gusty winds on the surface vs what my IRS's are showing at altitude will clue me in on any shear might be encountered. Not a big deal with your instant power response turboprop, but the slow spool of a jet it's nice to have an idea of what may be encountered for the rest of the approach.

Mad to land with a tailwind? Are you for real? Never in 30 years of flying everything from fighters to airliners have I ever been or encountered someone "mad" about landing with a tailwind. You're either legal or not. End of subject.

Mad about vectors? Hardly, reread profiles comment about fuel conservation and configuring turbojets for descent. Very applicable for descent planning and configuring the aircraft.

Seems all the speculating you've been doing about others may be
an insight to your complete lack of understand on turbojet operational nuances.

What a concept.

 

[Dieterly]

Profile is right on.

 

[csmith]

I know from your profile you have a plethora of heavy jet experience, but the issues you are whining about actually are valid for turbojet pilots. Profile summed them up quite well but....

As far as the dork comment, then count me in as one as well. Any question on gusty winds on the surface vs what my IRS's are showing at altitude will clue me in on any shear might be encountered. Not a big deal with your instant power response turboprop, but the slow spool of a jet it's nice to have an idea of what may be encountered for the rest of the approach.

Mad to land with a tailwind? Are you for real? Never in 30 years of flying everything from fighters to airliners have I ever been or encountered someone "mad" about landing with a tailwind. You're either legal or not. End of subject.

Mad about vectors? Hardly, reread profiles comment about fuel conservation and configuring turbojets for descent. Very applicable for descent planning and configuring the aircraft.

Seems all the speculating you've been doing about others may be
an insight to your complete lack of understand on turbojet operational nuances.

What a concept.

It's funny. I've been watching your posts for a while now, IFF, and you never hesitate to chastise somebody for unnecessary slams, yet you never fail to pass up the chance to let them fly yourself. Does your title of "moderator" make you infallable to the rules you so callously enforce?

For what it is worth, I am one of the nerds who keeps track of the winds on the surface, albeit without asking. I merely listen attentively to tower who give it quite often. My "little" 737 doesn't have the maneuverability of the aircraft with both inboard and outboard ailerons, and acts quite sluggish in a stiff xwind. Additionally, when gusty, these jets lack the response time to get themselves out of a bind in a windshear incident. So having an idea of what's going on down on the surface is a great indicator of a possible shear. Finally, it is my practice of leaving 10,000 without ever touching the power again until 1000 AGL. Planning a perfect descent requires constant calculating and recalculating in order to descend and slow to flap speeds, gear speeds, and approach speeds in order to arrive at 1000 without speedbrakes, power, or FMS. The last thing paying passengers want is a guy up there being a power jockey, or using the speedbrakes. Yes, how long the final is weighs heavily in that planning process.

In ATL, people ask about the final so as to know how soon they need to configure the jet and or yank the speedbrakes out in order to provide the best possible flow and keep the operation running quickly and smoothly and fuel efficient. It's all part of being a professional. I hope this addresses some of the inaccuracies you seem to love posting about the Delta pilots.

C Smith

Delta geek

 

[TurboS7]

I always ask for how long the final is for the same reason. Planning . As said in a previous post in the UK they gave distance fo touchdonwfor your present point, that was a great help.

 

[Boeingman]

It's funny. I've been watching your posts for a while now, IFF, and you never hesitate to chastise somebody for unnecessary slams, yet you never fail to pass up the chance to let them fly yourself. Does your title of "moderator" make you infallable to the rules you so callously enforce?

For what it is worth, I am one of the nerds who keeps track of the winds on the surface, albeit without asking. I merely listen attentively to tower who give it quite often. My "little" 737 doesn't have the maneuverability of the aircraft with both inboard and outboard ailerons, and acts quite sluggish in a stiff xwind. Additionally, when gusty, these jets lack the response time to get themselves out of a bind in a windshear incident. So having an idea of what's going on down on the surface is a great indicator of a possible shear. Finally, it is my practice of leaving 10,000 without ever touching the power again until 1000 AGL. Planning a perfect descent requires constant calculating and recalculating in order to descend and slow to flap speeds, gear speeds, and approach speeds in order to arrive at 1000 without speedbrakes, power, or FMS. The last thing paying passengers want is a guy up there being a power jockey, or using the speedbrakes. Yes, how long the final is weighs heavily in that planning process.

In ATL, people ask about the final so as to know how soon they need to configure the jet and or yank the speedbrakes out in order to provide the best possible flow and keep the operation running quickly and smoothly and fuel efficient. It's all part of being a professional. I hope this addresses some of the inaccuracies you seem to love posting about the Delta pilots.

C Smith

Delta geek

You copied my post by mistake.

 

[ifly4food]

Lighten up... you guys are no fun!

To all you dorks who chided me, try to lighten up and not take everything so personally. You'll live longer.
Boeingman, I'll bet your blood pressure jumped 20 points as you wrote that response Same for CSSmith.

What do you guys care what I think anyhow? Lighten up and roll with it when someone pokes a little fun at you. Maybe even poke a little fun back if the person deserves it (I do).

Too many people here take themselves way too seriously.

 

[guitarflyer]

Want some A-1 with that foot sandwich?

 

[sidesaddle]

wind check

When I was flying turbo-props into SFO and LAX, I was especially interested in a wind check when I was landing behind a 747 or other heavy. It helped me plan for and avoid wake turbulence.

There were some good posts in this thread as to why a wind check can be good information to have. BTW a number of airplanes like the 727 don't have a read out of the winds on final or anywhere else in flight. Steam gages baby!!

 

[csmith]

Re: Lighten up... you guys are no fun!

To all you dorks who chided me, try to lighten up and not take everything so personally. You'll live longer.
Boeingman, I'll bet your blood pressure jumped 20 points as you wrote that response Same for CSSmith.

What do you guys care what I think anyhow? Lighten up and roll with it when someone pokes a little fun at you. Maybe even poke a little fun back if the person deserves it (I do).

Too many people here take themselves way too seriously.

My blood pressure only jumps 20 pts when I see my wife naked, although I have to fess up that the FHM cover with Anna increased it 19 pts.

Your posts always "poke fun" at mainline and Delta pilots. I highly doubt after observing you for a while now that you are just "poking fun". You know it and we know it. It is, however, quite amusing to watch you try and back peddle your way out of it, especially when your buddies surplus and fin didn't jump on your bandwagon this time.

BTW your post on J4J is just a blatant lie and you should remove it. Follow your own rules, son. Or were you just "poking fun"???

 

[Boeingman]

To all you dorks who chided me, try to lighten up and not take everything so personally. You'll live longer.
Boeingman, I'll bet your blood pressure jumped 20 points as you wrote that response Same for CSSmith.

What do you guys care what I think anyhow? Lighten up and roll with it when someone pokes a little fun at you. Maybe even poke a little fun back if the person deserves it (I do).

Too many people here take themselves way too seriously.

Blood pressure? Over you? LOL

Your lame attempt for the rationalization of your posts saying they are "poking fun" are very transparent.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Thanks for asking this. I always thought that was odd, asking for a wind check when you are flying a huge wind indicator through the air. I guess they do things differently in Atlanta too. Here in Cinci, they give us speeds so we don't have to do the planning for them. If they want us closer, they speed us up. Farther back, they slow us down. Don't they do that down south?

Oh, and this is of course another example of big heavy drivers thinking they are better than everyone who flies smaller jets. You could have just answered his question without the sarcasm, but I guess some of the things we think about mainline pilots must be true.