Why do Caravans suck in ice?

[starcheck208]

I fly it in the great lakes area and I've had a few pucker flights, but you just have to be smart with it. As soon as I see any ice i'm changing altitudes, usually higher but sometimes I'll stay low if it keeps me out of it. We got vans with and without pod/gear boots. I'm sure wing load is the reason but it would've been nice if they could take the wing strut off like a 210 or 177. That would be one less thing to grab ice.

 

[NoPax]

I agree it was a great airplane when I flew it too, as long as I was in florida or south texas in the winter. Im just saying it's dangeous airplane for some operators who pressure low-times who haven't learned how to say NO to a trip. In the winter I would say I cancelled 40% of my assigned trips. I'm glad I did and the day I quit that job was first day of the rest of my life.

40% of your trips...that seems a lot, but glad you're still with us!

 

[vallyman]

I disagree that it is a dangeous A/C it is only the nut behind the yoke hahah (I do fly a Van I write this as I go to work)

I have flowen is some challenging conditions for me, but the van has always pulled through, It is just a wonderfull A/C to fly yes it does have it's limitations but all A/C have them it is up to the pilot(that why they pay us the big bucks) to know the limits of the A/C and one's self

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

There's not too many planes you can take 175kts to the approach lights and make the first turnoff.

Hmmm, 175kts? must have been shot down!

 

[CaravanMan]

Hmmm, 175kts? must have been shot down!

Hehe, pretty fun to watch from the ground, too. See a coworker do it too!

 

[Nolife]

CaravanMan isn't kidding... I turned to parallel an Untied 737 at the marker going into SAT. I landed on 12L, made the first turn off @ 1200 ft, and had to hold short of 12R while the 73 touched down. Gotta love beta.
Now take off and cruise are something different.

 

[F#7b5]

I wish I was to hot chicks what the Caravan is to ice!

I wish I was to "hot chicks" what the Caravan is to ice!

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Wouldn't fly one again on a bet.

A testimony to the power of political lobbying at the FAA.

See MU-2.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Now take off and cruise are something different.

You're right on that one-the steam off my piss climbs faster than a Caravan!

 

[Caboclo]

OK RoughAir, I'll try to combine all the previous into a coherent answer for you. Your profile is not very specific, so forgive me if I'm talking below you. Also, I'll admit I have all of 1 hour in the Van, I'm speaking from my experience in general. The Caravan has 2 problems: first, it's not very fast to begin with, and second it has a lot of stuff to collect ice, ie wing struts, fixed gear, cargo pod. The point is, the first thing that happens in ice is that you lose airspeed. You need a lot of wind to blow the ice off the boots, so if you just lost of bunch of speed which you didn't have to begin with, you're SOL. (I liked the climb/dive trick, that could be useful in several aircraft.) That's the biggest part of it right there; it's just not fast enough, and loses too much speed too quickly. You don't have the margin for error that you would in other planes. I believe the proposed AD's are aimed at making sure the aircraft is properly deiced on the ground before take-off, so as to preserve whatever margin of error there might be. Like the Challenger, if you take-off with ice already on the plane, you're cutting it really, really close.

 

[freighthumper]

Im not saying its legal..but mop and glow works as good as ice-x

 

[skydivinguy]

Pig in the ice

There's some funny stuff in this thread. heated pod? Only by the exhaust pipe!

All the Vans equipped for flight in known icing are now required to have the pod and gear leg boots installed (not to mention a nifty little handhold for you guys to feel the wing for ice). Also, 500 lb. gross wt. reduction in ice.

The AD is out and 120 days to have all that crap installed.

Of course, a BIG box hauling company has had the pod and gear boots for years now and they have lost several since in the ice.

The van is a great airplane in nice weather. It isn't in the s*#t!

maybe it would be good with that Garrett engine conversion.

 

[fokkers&beer]

Skydivingguy knows what hes talking about. He knows all things about Caravans, I worked with him when I flew them.
As far as speed goes, the Caravan from what I remember, we would file around 160 knots. Thats the same speed as my old Beech would go, and that aircraft could haul ice like few other recip airplanes.
From what I recall, thats a pretty common airspeed (seems like 402's are around that fast, senecas, lots light twins). The speed isn't the big key to the solution.
An interesting thing was the Caravan was one of two airplanes that when you would blow the boots, you would get these cool vertical shrouds of ice. The other aircraft I have flown that did this was the ATR, that was cruising somewhere around 250kts, and that airplanes another real piece of work that I'm glad I'm not flying anymore.

 

[RoughAir]

Caboclo:
Good summary. The Van has been out there now for a long time and I would think those icing problems would have manifested itself a while back. Now the FAA is interested in more ADs. I know the FAA is good at "reacting" instead of "proacting", but it just seemed to me that this next round of ADs/mods is a quick reaction to something no one knew about the airplane.

 

[FN FAL]

some people just don't learn until they get the shoot scared outta them by taking a plane somewhere it aint supposed to go......

There's pilots and then there's bureaucratic aircraft administrators. If you're the former, you know when to say when. If you're the latter, you're probably better off in something where you can't hurt yourself or others.