Why do Caravans suck in ice?

[Lou3]

Our Van does not have a boot on the pod either. I guess LJDVR is talking out of his butt (but he probably never flew the van but wants us to think that HE did).

 

[rway36]

The Van

I fly the caravan 5 nights a week in the great lakes region. That means 5 nights aweek of more grey hair through the winter. Yes....the caravan sucks azzzz in ice with or without the pod. Plain and simple it is a dangerous airplane in the winter months single pilot. The actual operators like to glorify the safety of it, but there azzzz is not the one out there flying it.
Just my quick rant!!!!!!!!!

 

[CaravanMan]

You can have the boot on the pod, or you can have it off. The company I worked for had a mix of both. Get a rock or two flung up there and it doesn't work too well, so they took them off of a lot of them. If you take the pod boot off then the landing gear boots have to go because they are on the same line or something (so mx told me).

 

[brokeflyer]

Bite me, lol. I loved that plane!

some people just don't learn until they get the crap scared outta them by taking a plane somewhere it aint supposed to go......

 

[CaravanMan]

some people just don't learn until they get the shoot scared outta them by taking a plane somewhere it aint supposed to go......

Well, obviously I'm alive, so I must have made some good decisions, don't you think? You have to use your head, wouldn't you agree? Why would I want to take the plane somewhere it isn't supposed to go? That's pretty stupid. I'm not arguing that the plane does well in ice, so don't get your panties ruffled man. Look back at my first post, I said the plane doesn't do well in ice. All I'm saying is I enjoyed flying the plane and would do it again. There's not too many planes you can take 175kts to the approach lights and make the first turnoff. If you have a problem with my having a good experience in that plane, so be it.

 

[NorthShore]

Wouldn't fly one again on a bet.

A testimony to the power of political lobbying at the FAA.

 

[Mason]

Flew 900 hours single pilot in the van. Never let me down once. Know its limitations in ice and fly accordingly and you'll be just fine.

 

[flyboyzii]

I flew it for 5 1/2 years in the Northwest (3500 hrs.) I got nervous a few times but never scared out of my mind. My route was only 1 hour long though, maybe an hour plus ten to shoot an approach. I carried 1200-1300 lbs of fuel. Climbed at no less than 115 kts (whatever climb I got I just delt with it) and didn't take a payload of more than 2200 lbs (Fed Ex didn't care as long as it was a safety issue) When I encoutered icing conditions I climbed, sometimes all the way up to FL180. I flew the Fed Ex feeder with boots on the pod, gear etc..... But, unlike my co-workers I bought my own can of Ice-X and applied it every Saturday after I had finished my run. No, I didn't get paid for it but to me it was cheap insurance and I wrote off the cost on my taxes anyway. It only took me about 45 minutes anyway. You just must accept the limitations of the A/C. And, I flew many times with the igniters on the whole flight in heavy precip.

 

[flyboyzii]

Sorry about the double post but I remembered that the way I shed the ice when I encountered it was to request a "block altitude" Climb to the top of the block and when I was ready to blow the boots I would pitch down..get the airspeed up to about 150-160 and then blow the boots. Then climb back up to the top of the block again. Also, if you will lightly pitch the a/c up and down just a little to change the AOA it will help shed the ice a little better.

 

[brokeflyer]

I agree it was a great airplane when I flew it too, as long as I was in florida or south texas in the winter. Im just saying it's dangeous airplane for some operators who pressure low-times who haven't learned how to say NO to a trip. In the winter I would say I cancelled 40% of my assigned trips. I'm glad I did and the day I quit that job was first day of the rest of my life.

 

[starcheck208]

I fly it in the great lakes area and I've had a few pucker flights, but you just have to be smart with it. As soon as I see any ice i'm changing altitudes, usually higher but sometimes I'll stay low if it keeps me out of it. We got vans with and without pod/gear boots. I'm sure wing load is the reason but it would've been nice if they could take the wing strut off like a 210 or 177. That would be one less thing to grab ice.

 

[NoPax]

I agree it was a great airplane when I flew it too, as long as I was in florida or south texas in the winter. Im just saying it's dangeous airplane for some operators who pressure low-times who haven't learned how to say NO to a trip. In the winter I would say I cancelled 40% of my assigned trips. I'm glad I did and the day I quit that job was first day of the rest of my life.

40% of your trips...that seems a lot, but glad you're still with us!

 

[vallyman]

I disagree that it is a dangeous A/C it is only the nut behind the yoke hahah (I do fly a Van I write this as I go to work)

I have flowen is some challenging conditions for me, but the van has always pulled through, It is just a wonderfull A/C to fly yes it does have it's limitations but all A/C have them it is up to the pilot(that why they pay us the big bucks) to know the limits of the A/C and one's self

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

There's not too many planes you can take 175kts to the approach lights and make the first turnoff.

Hmmm, 175kts? must have been shot down!

 

[CaravanMan]

Hmmm, 175kts? must have been shot down!

Hehe, pretty fun to watch from the ground, too. See a coworker do it too!

 

[Nolife]

CaravanMan isn't kidding... I turned to parallel an Untied 737 at the marker going into SAT. I landed on 12L, made the first turn off @ 1200 ft, and had to hold short of 12R while the 73 touched down. Gotta love beta.
Now take off and cruise are something different.

 

[F#7b5]

I wish I was to hot chicks what the Caravan is to ice!

I wish I was to "hot chicks" what the Caravan is to ice!

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Wouldn't fly one again on a bet.

A testimony to the power of political lobbying at the FAA.

See MU-2.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Now take off and cruise are something different.

You're right on that one-the steam off my piss climbs faster than a Caravan!

 

[Caboclo]

OK RoughAir, I'll try to combine all the previous into a coherent answer for you. Your profile is not very specific, so forgive me if I'm talking below you. Also, I'll admit I have all of 1 hour in the Van, I'm speaking from my experience in general. The Caravan has 2 problems: first, it's not very fast to begin with, and second it has a lot of stuff to collect ice, ie wing struts, fixed gear, cargo pod. The point is, the first thing that happens in ice is that you lose airspeed. You need a lot of wind to blow the ice off the boots, so if you just lost of bunch of speed which you didn't have to begin with, you're SOL. (I liked the climb/dive trick, that could be useful in several aircraft.) That's the biggest part of it right there; it's just not fast enough, and loses too much speed too quickly. You don't have the margin for error that you would in other planes. I believe the proposed AD's are aimed at making sure the aircraft is properly deiced on the ground before take-off, so as to preserve whatever margin of error there might be. Like the Challenger, if you take-off with ice already on the plane, you're cutting it really, really close.