Why do Caravans suck in ice?

[RoughAir]

I just read that the FAA may impose stricter requirements (more ADs) for flying Caravans in ice. Cessna is of course fighting the proposal.

I'm curious, what is the issue(s) with the Caravan in icing? There have been many posts about this, just trying to understand this icing issue.

I have no time in the Van.

 

[jobear]

Tail plane stall

 

[rubicon789]

It's slow, has a really fat wing and just collects ice like a magnet.

 

[greygoose]

It's slow, has a really fat wing and just collects ice like a magnet.

Hit the nail pretty good with this one. The only thing the Caravan is good for when you immediately see icing is to climb. A real good rule of thumb, if you have to blow the boots three times in a good amount of ice start looking for your landing site below.

 

[StarHustler]

In addition to what has been posted, the cargo pod on the Grand Caravan is really bad to accumulate ice and of course, there is no boot on that.

 

[Launchpad]

There is a boot on the pod, it's optional however. To add to the list of complaints, the gear is always out too. There is just a lot of unprotected areas to get ice. You really need to think realize that even though a caravan is a "Known Ice" airplane, it's a single engine plane with minimal ice protection. It only takes light ice to go from 160 kts to 120 kts.

There is a lot of finger pointing with all these crashes, I would just advice to get out of ice once getting into it.

 

[LJDRVR]

In addition to what has been posted, the cargo pod on the Grand Caravan is really bad to accumulate ice and of course, there is no boot on that.

Are you just talking out of your butt? I flew Caravans for a year. Over a dozen 208B's in my logbook and every single one had a pod boot. It's optional, but most have it.

Back to the original question, the Caravan didn't meet known ice certification standards. Cessna had to ad the backup alternator and some other things I can't recall seven years later. The general consensus was that even with the re-works, it shouldn't have been certified for known ice.

Strategies are pretty simple. Stay out of the stuff, and treat it like an IFE if you encounter it. (Do something now.) Treat your boots often. I seem to recall some folks putting ice-x on the bottom of the pod. I can't vouch for that doing anything. FN FAL may want to pipe in, I'm pretty sure he's more current and experienced on that airframe than any of us. (Especially Starhustler, who's never flown one, but would like us to think he has.)

 

[brokeflyer]

the wing is real fat and the tail is small......when you get ice, the tail will get loaded more and you'll get some buffeting meaning your tail is gonna stall soon. If you blow the boots you clear the tail but then you bridged the ice on the wing. If you blow the ice off the wing then you bridged the ice on the tail.

That plane tried to kill me more than anything else, I'll never fly one again.
It's a great airplane in the summer. It should only be flown in S.CA of florida.

 

[kevdog]

I would also add the PT-6 in the Caravan, especially with a heavy payload and the inertial sep. in use, is underpowered. It is a decent jump plane to fly VFR as long as a jumper doesn't take the tail off. I loved flying the Caravan, just wouldn't even think about flying it in IFR winter ops.

 

[brokeflyer]

speaking of jumpers, I had a buncha einsteins try a 16-way all at once out the back without telling me.

That was the last flight I ever did jumpers in a carvan too

 

[kevdog]

speaking of jumpers, I had a buncha einsteins try a 16-way all at once out the back without telling me.

That was the last flight I ever did jumpers in a carvan too

The Australian crash should be looked at by anyone flying Caravans or about to fly Caravans in jump ops. A stall (probably like the one in your situation) could easily cause the same outcome.

 

[CaravanMan]

It may be a turd in the ice, but the Caravan's still one of my most favorite planes I've flown. I loved that plane! There was one time when I was loaded down in the back, got into some freezing driz/rain, and then had my prop anti-ice fail while trying to climb out of it. Exciting. Kevdog, I agree with you about the Inertial Sep making the thing underpowered. I needed to keep climbing but I temped out and couldn't get out of the ice. Screw that!

 

[Bringupthebird]

So that's one of your favorites, huh? Did you have an operation, or do you take a pill to get rid of that nasty unwanted self-preservation instinct?

 

[Optimax200]

I hope the FAA does do something with flight into known ice in the van, seems once a month 1 goes down due to it. my suggestions, climb or descend + or - 3000' should get you out of it. never let the speed go below 120kts. I have picked up my fair share of ice in the van and it gets the heart pumping, but do not loiter in ice, or just dont go!!!

 

[CaravanMan]

So that's one of your favorites, huh? Did you have an operation, or do you take a pill to get rid of that nasty unwanted self-preservation instinct?

Bite me, lol. I loved that plane!

 

[fokkers&beer]

The Caravan was my least favorite airplane that I have flown. You have that much stuff hanging off of an airplane in the Pacific NW, in the winter and the ice just loves to stick to it.
As far as the pod goes. They used a BF Goodrich agemaster kit, it didn't need any ice-x.

 

[rubicon789]

In addition to what has been posted, the cargo pod on the Grand Caravan is really bad to accumulate ice and of course, there is no boot on that.

Yes, the cargo pods are now required to have a heatplate or boot.

There is a boot on the pod, it's optional however. To add to the list of complaints, the gear is always out too. There is just a lot of unprotected areas to get ice. You really need to think realize that even though a caravan is a "Known Ice" airplane, it's a single engine plane with minimal ice protection. It only takes light ice to go from 160 kts to 120 kts.

There is a lot of finger pointing with all these crashes, I would just advice to get out of ice once getting into it.

As well as the landing gear, it now is required to have boots. For known Ice of course.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Nobody mentioned non-pressurized therefore slogging around in the snot for longer periods of time. I think single pilot ops add also as the work load increases when in icing adding another thing to worry about.

I complain because I can't get the airspeed down in the DA50 with icing on below 10000. Just goes to show you the night freight guys flying vans, single and twin cessnas should be making the $$$$. I'm all for paying your dues but it seems that some of those dues are expensive.

 

[vallyman]

I love the van as well, it sometimes does suck in ice depending on how much and other Wx conciderations. but all in all it is a fun A/C to fly

I have been told there is a golden rule in freight:

Mission Oriented
Damage Control

 

[StarHustler]

Are you just talking out of your butt? I flew Caravans for a year. Over a dozen 208B's in my logbook and every single one had a pod boot. It's optional, but most have it.

Back to the original question, the Caravan didn't meet known ice certification standards. Cessna had to ad the backup alternator and some other things I can't recall seven years later. The general consensus was that even with the re-works, it shouldn't have been certified for known ice.

Strategies are pretty simple. Stay out of the stuff, and treat it like an IFE if you encounter it. (Do something now.) Treat your boots often. I seem to recall some folks putting ice-x on the bottom of the pod. I can't vouch for that doing anything. FN FAL may want to pipe in, I'm pretty sure he's more current and experienced on that airframe than any of us. (Especially Starhustler, who's never flown one, but would like us to think he has.)

Dude, are you always such an AZZ??!! Our Caravan does NOT have a boot on the pod and I CURRENTLY fly it 5 days per week! In fact, I just got home from another 7 hour hobbs day. So go bite me you jerk! Geez, some folks are just plain rude.