Why be so quick to report "traffic in sight" ?

[TDTURBO]

I was IFR in VFR conditions last year south of INDY and fly right under (200ft) a Sarartoga. I told approach about it and he said sorry 'bout that but you are in a blind spot on our radar. Apparently I was to low for the coverage, but they never told me they lost me like they usually do. It woke me up that IFR still doesn't mean jack for separation unless you're in the clouds, even then I had a close call coming into a feild that was IFR with a 152 in the pattern. He was illegal and scudded out of there.

 

[FlyChicaga]

We should start a thread, "The Top Ten Reasons I Love TCAS".

 

[GravityHater]

I think this has already been covered in the airline vs 172 midair in the 70's, S California, no? The passjet reported seeing the wrong a/c?
It's a system deficiency for sure.
Los Cerritos?

 

[RoyBoy]

In and out of the clouds its allways the traffic he doesnt call out that i see! me " uhh aproach is there supposed to be a c-130 right below me?!?!? atc "traffic passing 500 feet below you no factor.."

 

[BaronDrvr]

If it is obvious to you, then call the traffic in sight. Otherwise, you're just being a jerk to the controller who then has to keep saying, "Traffic 12 o'clock 5 miles...Traffic 12 o'clock 4 miles...Traffic 12 o'clock 3 miles...", etc. They don't have time to be doing that, but they are required to keep giving you alerts until you have the traffic in sight.

I dont think the other guys point was to be obnoxious and be a jerk to atc. A good point was brought up that in a high traffic area with hazy conditions, the traffic you are supposed to follow can be mistaken for another aircraft. Their point was to not call it out prematurely. If you are not in fact certain that is the aircraft that atc is calling out, it would be unwise and dangerous to say you have them in sight.

 

[Bernoulli]

"As soon as I report traffic in sight I then must take on the complete responsibility for separation.."

WRONG...you have to also advise you are taking corrective action, or I have to continue giving you traffic.

"Why should I do that when there is an ATC guy who can help me just in case I get busy and loose sight of that traffic? "

Because I am busier than you..if you see the traffic, call it in sight. If you want to play go IFR. Don't be a jerk

If a controller is very busy I take that into consideration when reporting traffic... but I get **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** busy too... even if I can keep a constant eye on the traffic it may have a city or other terrain behind it that camafalges it... one second you got it in sight, the next second it's gone. With all due respect ( And I mean that... I have a great respect for controllers) I'd rather have the controller a little busier than risk a collision... If I'm quick to call it ATC ends up being a little less busy and I end up dead. Also... I handle my traffic call-out the same way whether I'm VFR or IFR.

 

[Flying Illini]

We should start a thread, "The Top Ten Reasons I Love TCAS".

Reason #1: Because without it, I would have died the first week of May 2005. Seriously. Not "it would have been close" or "I could see the whites of his eyes," Myself, the captain, and three passengers would be a smoking hole.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

you don't report traffic and controllers get a sour taste for VFR's who are hesitent to report traffic...then the controller in the future just says to himself...im semi busy, im not gonna deal with the VFR people...

Cessna XXX remain clear of the bravo.

Its controller descretion. After so many of those then they are gonna deny Bravo trans....

The controllers tickets are on the line....remember the primary purpose of the ATC is to seperate IFR ac and give service to VFR's on workload permiting basis. If you can't look at the window and maintain VFR then stay clear of my airspace. I have pilots all the time complaining about traffic to me outside my terminal. both AC VFR...."verify your flying VFR today sir...." If your vfr that is your responsibility to look at your window.....

 

[nosehair]

I may see the traffic but I let ATC work for me and make sure I have that extra safety layer. As soon as I report traffic in sight I then must take on the complete responsibility for separation... .

...Maaaa!!, I can't reach the remote!!...

 

[Vector4fun]

If a controller is very busy I take that into consideration when reporting traffic... but I get busy too...

You get busy VFR in a PA28? I'm busier on I-35 in rush hour.


If you're not sure you see the traffic, don't call it in sight. The only thing more useless than no call is somebody reporting "I think I have the traffic..." Yeah, and I think you might be cleared for the visual behind him.

But the real flaw in your thinking is the idea you're putting responsibility for separation on the controller. Any time you're VMC, you (PIC) have final responsiblity for separation, not the controller. The controller is an aid for your eyes, nothing more. Yeah, we separate airplanes, but we don't always see everything. Especially if it doesn't have a working transponder...

 

[Bernoulli]

You get busy VFR in a PA28? I'm busier on I-35 in rush hour.


If you're not sure you see the traffic, don't call it in sight. The only thing more useless than no call is somebody reporting "I think I have the traffic..." Yeah, and I think you might be cleared for the visual behind him.

But the real flaw in your thinking is the idea you're putting responsibility for separation on the controller. Any time you're VMC, you (PIC) have final responsiblity for separation, not the controller. The controller is an aid for your eyes, nothing more. Yeah, we separate airplanes, but we don't always see everything. Especially if it doesn't have a working transponder...

What's with the some of the attacks on this site. It' pretty pathetic... Reminds me of 12 year old insecure behavior to make one feel better about oneself by laughing and reducing the ego of others. (I'm sure I'll get lots of flame for that... which basically just prooves my point).

Anyhow...I never said I Put the responsibility on ATC to see and avoid for me. I'm PIC and I always accept full responsibility for EVERYTHING regarding the flight and that inculdes seeing and avoiding other aircraft... I just don't think it is wise to throw away traffic warnings in busy airspace (IFR or VFR) unless I'm positive the traffic I see is in fact the trafic the controller has warned me about. My point is... I fly with many pilots with various backgrounds who call traffic ASAP when they are incapable of really maintaining a visual on that traffic or if the traffic is in fact the one that ATC has warned us about. I see it all the time... The pilot calls traffic in sight... ATC says maintain visual separation.... 5 seconds later the pilot has lost sight of the traffic.

 

[Vector4fun]

As soon as I report traffic in sight I then must take on the complete responsibility for separation...

That quote came from your original post. Perhaps I misunderstood your meaning.

Anyway, don't take it as a personal attack. Take it as an "attack" on folks who, upon setting a four digit code in their transponders and hearing the magic words "radar contact", figure they can pull the curtains, relax, and listen to the ball game. I work a few of those every weekend...

 

[skyaddict]

Not only don't be too quick to call traffic in sight, but also, be quick to call traffic no longer in sight if you lose it for very long, if it is still possibly a factor anyway. From the pre-TCAS era, a classic example of how a crew's admitting they had lost or were unsure of the traffic might have saved the day was the PSA/GA midair over San Diego in the late 70s, where PSA called the traffic.

 

[Lead Sled]

JetBlue 182 HEAVY???? I think I've been away to long !!!

Everything's realitive - I've got a buddy that flys a 747 for Northwest. He call his Cessna 210 an ultralight.

'Sled

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There are only two repsonses to a traffic call in the AIM pilot/controller glossary.

'Traffic in sight' and 'negative contact'.

Can't find in the glossary "looking" or "on the TCAS" or my favorite "got 'em on the fishfinder"

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/PCG/T.HTM