Why aren't there second chances?

[Splinter]

Why is SWA not giving interview preference to pilots who want a second chance? They are interviewing pilots WITHOUT types, but not re-treads? Why not both? The re-treads played the game, took the risk, and demonstrated that they wanted SWA above all others. People without types have apps out with EVERYONE, so how is SWA determining who REALLY wants to be there without demonstrating a commitment in the form of a type? All those pilots who played the game against stiff odds and have no ROI other than a HPA sticker and hat. I think the re-treads who want another chance are easier to screen than those without types trolling the airline waters for the first fish to bite. Most people shot down the first time fell in love with SWA during the process and are absolutely more gung-ho for SWA than people who do not believe enough to demonstrate the entrepreneurial spirit SWA seeks. I'm not saying if you don't have a type, tough luck...but since most who got types were told "our competitive mins include a type", they should ALSO being getting interviews. That's only fair.

Does anyone know why this is and when it's going to change?

Chance? You out there? Can you talk some sense into someone?

 

[scoreboard]

Why is SWA not giving interview preference to pilots who want a second chance? They are interviewing pilots WITHOUT types, but not re-treads? Why not both? The re-treads played the game, took the risk, and demonstrated that they wanted SWA above all others. People without types have apps out with EVERYONE, so how is SWA determining who REALLY wants to be there without demonstrating a commitment in the form of a type? All those pilots who played the game against stiff odds and have no ROI other than a HPA sticker and hat. I think the re-treads who want another chance are easier to screen than those without types trolling the airline waters for the first fish to bite. Most people shot down the first time fell in love with SWA during the process and are absolutely more gung-ho for SWA than people who do not believe enough to demonstrate the entrepreneurial spirit SWA seeks. I'm not saying if you don't have a type, tough luck...but since most who got types were told "our competitive mins include a type", they should ALSO being getting interviews. That's only fair.

Does anyone know why this is and when it's going to change?

Chance? You out there? Can you talk some sense into someone?

Not true by any means, repeats are encouraged and do get another chance. Don't know who told you otherwise. Preferential, maybe not, but back in the pile to be reviewed just like everyone else, seems fair to me. I could see if you fell below the interview mins for the pile in question a year later, that it would seem to be "unfair", but that just shows how competitive it is, and is getting. Is it fair a year later to think someone who has more of what the PD folks are looking for at that time to put them on hold just so they can re-interview someone who is now not as qualified? No. Keep trying

 

[SWA/FO]

What are you talking about?

 

[ivauir]

My bud got his reinterview after about 18 months. He's at UPS now - the PD messed up

 

[climbhappy]

Splinter:
I reply only because the starbucks is kickin at 400am since i have an early show... obviously you want to work at SWA....your suppositions though just don't hold any water for me.

quote: demonstrate a committment in the form of a type.....

i'd say you simply met a requirement for consideration

quote: people withour types have apps out with everyone...

i'd say how do you know?

quote: retreads without types are easier to screen than those trolling for the first one to bite...

that you want work there is obvious. i have two friends who have gotten the type and turned down... you now put yourself into the HR roll deciding you can intrepret company policy and actually know the "ryhme and reason" that has alluded everyone for years...

lastly, quote : most people shot down are absolutley more gung ho........

you are definitely and I hope you get it, but it's a reach to speak for all. some might say to SWA "don't let the door hit you in the a$$" if it is meant to be for you it will happen.

remember," its wanting what you get, not getting what you want ...!!!

best of luck ,] hope it works out for you...

 

[Cassive Mock]

Second chance? I can't even get a first chance!

 

[BRA]

So you are saying the dudes with types don't have there resume out everywhere else to? Plenty out "737 typed for SWA" people working at my airline. Plenty over at airtran too.

 

[Splinter]

It's all good...SWA and JB are changing the industry permanently with a revolutionary management tactic...treat employees well in a service industry! WOW! No wonder so many want jobs there...but to continue the thread...

I've got lotsa buds who desperately want a second shot right now and all they hear is that hardly anyone on the interview roster is a 2nd timer. Why?

Is there anything that will increase the diet intake of retreads at the PD anytime soon?

While many have not left their military or regional jobs yet, I know dozens of guys that since got hired with JB, AirTran, FedEx, and UPS with B737 types and D.J. letters and none of them have had second interviews to this point. Is the fact that they are not logging PIC hurting them?

 

[enigma]

Splinter, it does seem to be taking a long time for another chance. I'll agree with you there. But, how many other airlines ever even offered a second or third chance? At least to my memory, SWA was/is the only major that famously offers do overs to it's pilot candidates.

Honestly, it doesn't make any sense to me that they do, but I'm glad of it. Here's why I say that. Excepting for the LOI, their interview is basically a personality test and I've always been taught that ones personality is set at a very young age. In other words, your personality aint gonna change, so why do they bother testing you twice?

I've failed twice, as the old timers here know. But in prep for the third attempt, I've read "How to win friends and influence people", worked on my people skills, etc, in order to become a successful candidate. I don't know if SWA will ever hire me, but I'm a better person for having tried.

enigma

 

[NEDude]

I am still trying to figure out what it takes as well. In the last interview I have seen from a SWA PD person, they say that competative is 1300-1800 PIC, a type rating, and Check Airman/Instructor experience.

Well my stats are 1700 PIC, 737 type, and instructor experience. I have twice in the last six months been on the phone with PD folks and gone over my online app with them. Both said it looks great with no mistakes, errors, omissions or blackmarks. Both said I'd be getting a call "within a month or so". I also spoke with Ryan at an AirInc conf last summer and he said everything looks good and should be getting call within two months.

Still nothing. I can't believe they are having that hard a time finding people who meet their competative mins.

Oh well, still hoping.

 

[TGR]

2nd chances happen all the time here at SWA. My buddy just got hired on his 2nd try. He got the call 13 months after his first interview, but was very well qualified. I think the timing of the call depends more on your qualifications and how they stack up with the current group of applicants then whether your already interviewed once. Just my 2c. Good luck to all. Dont give up!

 

[Bingo_Fuel]

2nd and 3rd.

Just interviewed in December and there was one guy on his second try and another that was on his third try, it happens. Now only wishing i wont have to try again!

 

[GuppyWN]

Hey NEDude. 1700 pic or 1700 pic turbine? Just curious.

Gup

 

[Lear70]

It's all good...SWA and JB are changing the industry permanently with a revolutionary management tactic...treat employees well in a service industry! WOW! No wonder so many want jobs there...but to continue the thread...

Refreshing, isn't it?

I've got lotsa buds who desperately want a second shot right now and all they hear is that hardly anyone on the interview roster is a 2nd timer. Why?

I've been hearing the same thing from friends I have who go in on their 1st attempt - 1 or 2 out of 20 are on their 2nd attempt and are (usually) more experienced than their peers at the interview.

I'm NOT saying that it's wrong of Southwest to do this. It's THEIR airline, not mine (yet), and they interview whom they want to interview, but I WOULD agree that someone who went to the trouble of getting the type rating (not to mention financial output), busted their butt to get the FIRST interview, and continues to push hard for a second interview MIGHT, just MIGHT be a pretty damn good fit for the company and most DEFINITELY shows more commitment to the airline than someone who hasn't bothered to get the type yet. JMHO.

As far as being competitive... I have almost 8,000 hours, 4,000 hours of jet PIC, 3,000 of that is Part 121, and the type. If that doesn't make me "competitive", I'm not sure what will.

p.s. the 14th of Jan marked 18 months since my initial interview and I've updated every month since I hit the 12 month mark and even talked to Lindsay briefly when I called to ask her to "reactivate" my application in the system. Holding my breath, crossing fingers and toes....

 

[canyonblue737]

Why is SWA not giving interview preference to pilots who want a second chance? They are interviewing pilots WITHOUT types, but not re-treads? Why not both? The re-treads played the game, took the risk, and demonstrated that they wanted SWA above all others. People without types have apps out with EVERYONE, so how is SWA determining who REALLY wants to be there without demonstrating a commitment in the form of a type? All those pilots who played the game against stiff odds and have no ROI other than a HPA sticker and hat. I think the re-treads who want another chance are easier to screen than those without types trolling the airline waters for the first fish to bite. Most people shot down the first time fell in love with SWA during the process and are absolutely more gung-ho for SWA than people who do not believe enough to demonstrate the entrepreneurial spirit SWA seeks. I'm not saying if you don't have a type, tough luck...but since most who got types were told "our competitive mins include a type", they should ALSO being getting interviews. That's only fair.

Does anyone know why this is and when it's going to change?

Chance? You out there? Can you talk some sense into someone?

Do you know anything about SWA? SWA has encouraged people to reinterview since they started and many, many, many pilots have been hired on the 2nd and even 3rd interview attempt. Just yesterday on this very forum someone posted that they got turned down in May 04, reinterviewed in Dec 05 and just got the call they were hired.

 

[hoover]

Actually I don't understand the practice of re-interviewing someone that they have previously turned down. The fact that they interviewed you means that they think you are qualified for the job. The only reason to turn down a qualified applicant is because there is something in their personality or character that indicates that the person wouldn't be a good fit for Southwest. That is not going to change no matter how many hours or rating you get.

On a side note, everytime I have been turned down for a job, it turned out to be for the better, even if I didn't know it at the time. Why would you want to work for someone who doesn't want you?

 

[Lear70]

Actually I don't understand the practice of re-interviewing someone that they have previously turned down. The fact that they interviewed you means that they think you are qualified for the job. The only reason to turn down a qualified applicant is because there is something in their personality or character that indicates that the person wouldn't be a good fit for Southwest. That is not going to change no matter how many hours or rating you get.

That's not necessarily true. From my sources who have actually BEEN on the hiring boards, sometimes a person can do an OUTSTANDING job during the interview, but have a blip on their record (failed training event just last year, non-rehire reference from 3 or 4 jobs back) that simply makes them pause and say, "Not right now".

Another year or two of no training problems and no disciplinary problems at their current job could make them view those "blips" as "ancient history".

On a side note, everytime I have been turned down for a job, it turned out to be for the better, even if I didn't know it at the time.

That's somewhat true, the pay cut would have been VERY bad timing if I passed the first interview, but would have been worth it to struggle in order to get that dream job. Have to agree with you on that though for the other three jobs I interviewed for that I didn't get (United in 2000 - would have been furloughed for a decade starting right after 9/11, CoEx in 2001 when my current company was going under, and AirNet Pax Charter group a while back). All of those, in retrospect, would have been not so great places to be, at least for me and the way my life has gone. Have to trust that things in life happen for a reason, you're absolutely right.

Why would you want to work for someone who doesn't want you?

Because it's better than just about any other job out there and they just don't KNOW they want me yet.