Who's the other 3 suitors tring to buy Midwest?

[russtgol]

In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if Air Wisconsin doesn't have any sort of private bid out there for Midwest. The owners of AWAC just made a bundle of cash through Usairways and are always looking and trying out to make their next buck.

Just my 2 cents, only time will tell

It would'nt surprise me one bit!

 

[maxblast72]

I wasn't aware Southwest had 18,000 pilots and 1,800 aircraft.

That's impressive.

BTW, pilot pay makes up about 2% of total non-fuel CASM at Majors. You could double your hourly rate and, on average, your CASM would go up about half a penny. Just a little tasty tidbit from the EF&A people in Herndon.

Lear70, if you do the math with Airtran, pilots are about 10% of the total nonfuel CASM, not 2%. Whoever is spitting out those % are using extremely old numbers.

Airtrans nonfuel CASM is just under 6 cents per ASM, so you are right doubling pilot pay would raise nonfuel CASM about a 1/2 penny but that would be about a 10% increase in nonfuel CASM. We need to be finding a way to make Airtran more efficient so we can get closer to Southwest pay and keep our nonfuel CASM industry competitive like they do.

 

[Lear70]

That's the argument management is using, and I don't buy it. Are you advocating not getting better pay?

Southwest is successful with a higher non-fuel CASM with almost double the F/O pay, 50% higher CA pay, and health bennies that cost 90% less than ours.

If you want to use Southwest as a model? fine, we can do that; give us their pay scale and we'll STILL be under their non-fuel CASM and the company can figure out how to make it profitable.

There's only so many ways to squeeze the lemon. The company is operating on a shoestring budget trying to play like a major player and those two don't go together long-term. Unless we market this airline better AND attract and retain top-notch customer service talent, this airline will never be more than what it currently is. That means spending more money in order to make more money.

I don't want to bankrupt my own company by ANY means, but maybe there's a REASON Southwest pays better and is successful...?

Just a thought.

 

[lowecur]

The 3 other bidders should come out in the next few weeks.

What you all seem to be forgetting are hearings in committee before both houses if there is any scent of anti-trust between the chosen suitor and YX. A NWA or SWA winning bid would certainly trip warning alarms and may stand very little chance of boning up to anti-trust scrutiny due to the close proximity of dominant hubs in this central part of the country.

FL and YX are the rightful marriage partners because of it's fleet commonality and FL's lack of dominance in this geographical area. Since FL has directors on the board of YX, they know who the competition is. The bid will probably get driven up past $500M, and financed by the cash on hand at YX and diluting FL stock with another 35M shares. The market has taken this all into consideration based on the stock price of FL today. The synergy is there, and it's my guess they will get the job done.

Then we will move onto F9/B6 next. Won't happen for a year or so as private equity buyers want both stocks to take a further tumble (particulary B6). B6 stock needs to drift down in the $6 range.

One thing that will be learned by YX deal is the houses of Congress have no intention of making dominant carriers in the region any more dominant than they are today.

imp:​

 

[deadstick]

In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if Air Wisconsin doesn't have any sort of private bid out there for Midwest. The owners of AWAC just made a bundle of cash through Usairways and are always looking and trying out to make their next buck.

Just my 2 cents, only time will tell

I was thinking about this, too. That would keep it somewhat "hometown." Many have neen wondering what was up with the lack of growth with Air Wisc. YX just started service with CRJ's and look who has a lot of CRJ's...

hmmm...

 

[Fly4hire]

The 3 other bidders should come out in the next few weeks.

What you all seem to be forgetting are hearings in committee before both houses if there is any scent of anti-trust between the chosen suitor and YX. A NWA or SWA winning bid would certainly trip warning alarms and may stand very little chance of boning up to anti-trust scrutiny due to the close proximity of dominant hubs in this central part of the country.

imp:

I doubt very much an airline the size of Midwest would come onto the anti-trust radar. NWA would not even have to call it a hub, but a satellite base.

 

[BoilerUP]

I was thinking about this, too. That would keep it somewhat "hometown." Many have neen wondering what was up with the lack of growth with Air Wisc. YX just started service with CRJ's and look who has a lot of CRJ's...

I can't help but think the Amigos would have done this back in December to secure the RJ RFP if they were really interested...the market price for Midwest is nothing but higher now with AirTran's bid.

 

[lowecur]

I doubt very much an airline the size of Midwest would come onto the anti-trust radar. NWA would not even have to call it a hub, but a satellite base.

If NWA were to somehow escape antitrust review by the houses of Congress, they would then have to maintain pricing similar to XY's to avoid scrutiny and a possible lawsuit by the Wisconsin and Missouri AG's. NWA could then be subject to paying triple damages if they did not maintain similar pricing, if such a lawsuit were successful....a painful price to pay for the privilege of keeping FL from controlling MKE/MCI.

There are a number of arguments that could cause various committees to ask for hearings. YX also has a minihub at MCI that would hand control of that airport to WN. Control of an airport has never been considered a reason for filing antitrust actions in the past, but that doesn't mean hearings and actions in the future aren't possible due to the strength of both airlines in the region. WN is quickly headed in a direction where they can no longer be counted on to be the low price leader due to their increasing cost structure. Giving them control and pricing power in (2) markets may prove detrimental to the consumers of those markets as WN continues to increase ticket prices. FL has been more stable in the last 12 months with their cost structure, and this is an argument that will be brought to the forefront if necessary.

imp:​

 

[AA717driver]

If NWA were to somehow escape antitrust review...

OBERSTAR! OBERSTAR! OBERSTAR!

Oops. Sorry, I thought I was the General for a second.

As I said on this thread on the LCC board, AA is interested because they want the 717's and need a reliever for ORD since it's at capacity. TC

 

[~~~^~~~]

Skywest

That is what I'm thinking also. It will be interesting to see what Delta and United think of this idea.

SkyWest may not care what Delta and United think. Independence, with better revenue management anyone?

 

[~~~^~~~]

If NWA were to somehow escape antitrust review by the houses of Congress,

I'm not sure you are going down the right path. I think that Airline anti trust questions are regulated by the Department of Justice under clearance agreement (scope) from the Federal Trade Commission. The Attorney General is so wrapped up inside the beltway that airlines are not getting much scrutiny.

 

[deadstick]

I can't help but think the Amigos would have done this back in December to secure the RJ RFP if they were really interested...the market price for Midwest is nothing but higher now with AirTran's bid.

But in December, AAI's offer was not taken seriously in MKE, and there were no "new" board member. Time (with poor earnings, p/o-ed shareholders, and a premium offer) changes everything.

 

[lowecur]

I'm not sure you are going down the right path. I think that Airline anti trust questions are regulated by the Department of Justice under clearance agreement (scope) from the Federal Trade Commission. I agree. The Attorney General is so wrapped up inside the beltway that airlines are not getting much scrutiny. I was referring to the options each State's AG has in regards to antitrust, not the US AG.

Although each individual State's remedies are seldom used with great success, they certainly can play a part in the final decision making process on whether to proceed with a buyout or merger if the punitive damages are a strong enough deterent.

imp:​

 

[The Victors]

That's the argument management is using, and I don't buy it. Are you advocating not getting better pay?

Southwest is successful with a higher non-fuel CASM with almost double the F/O pay, 50% higher CA pay, and health bennies that cost 90% less than ours.

If you want to use Southwest as a model? fine, we can do that; give us their pay scale and we'll STILL be under their non-fuel CASM and the company can figure out how to make it profitable.

There's only so many ways to squeeze the lemon. The company is operating on a shoestring budget trying to play like a major player and those two don't go together long-term. Unless we market this airline better AND attract and retain top-notch customer service talent, this airline will never be more than what it currently is. That means spending more money in order to make more money.

I don't want to bankrupt my own company by ANY means, but maybe there's a REASON Southwest pays better and is successful...?

Just a thought.

Doesn't it piss you off that your management doesn't think that your pilot group is worth a sh$t while they spend millions and go further into debt with this offer?

 

[Ty Webb]

Doesn't it piss you off that your management doesn't think that your pilot group is worth a sh$t while they spend millions and go further into debt with this offer?

Not as much as it bugs me that one of my fellow pilots is getting his jollies by trying to piss off other pilots.

What this industry needs is for pilot to realize who the real enemy is, and to act accordingly.

Grow the F___ up.


.

 

[The Victors]

Not as much as it bugs me that one of my fellow pilots is getting his jollies by trying to piss off other pilots.

What this industry needs is for pilot to realize who the real enemy is, and to act accordingly.

Grow the F___ up.


.

Settle down Francis. It was just a simple question. Obviously it was warranted since I apparently touched a nerve.

 

[deadstick]

Settle down Francis. It was just a simple question. Obviously it was warranted since I apparently touched a nerve.

Chill folks.

We're all shoes and roadsters in the big Airline Monopoly game. Whatever happens in the MKE and MCO fortresses, it will affect some of us, but we won't hammer out the fine points of the deal here on FI.com.

With that said, I feel solidarity in this profession (starting with the CFIs) has always been weak. Mgt-types play pilot groups off one another and this "lowers the bar." I think this is what Ty was getting at.

Ok, SFC Hulka (aka Victors)?

 

[The Victors]

Believe me, I pulling for the airtran guys to get a big contract. I'm pulling for every pilot group to stand up a take it back. I was the first guy to give props to the trany guys when they rejected that crap TA. My problem is with the Mgmt's out there that screw their employees first and pay themselves later.

 

[runwayjockey]

YX is going private with local investors.

 

[deadstick]

YX is going private with local investors.

Will the new colors be black and orange? Biker-chick FA's?

 

[tubelcane]

we haven't been offered the chance to reject it yet!

 

[DiverDriver]

It had been rumored that Eastshore Aviation was quietly buying up shares of Midwest last summer prior to the CRJ RFP. Suprise when AWAC didn't get the RFP but these guys might make another tidy little profit if it is sold nicely. I don't think Eastshore/AWAC is trying to buy Midwest. I think they already own the stock they want to sell for a profit. Remember who did a quicky deal for CRJ flying for AirTran? AWAC. These guys are talking I'm sure of it. Now, AirTran buys Midwest and Eastshore rakes in some dow.

Proof? I have none.

 

[UALBRAT]

I don't think Midwest pilots would appreciate the same "preferential interviews" deal that SWA gave the ATA pilots...

Back in the day when I flew for Skyway, any Skyway pilot who went to Midwest(Midwest Express when flew there) was given a "preferential interview" Those individuals should be used to "preferential interviews". They were mostly all the company brown nosers. Anyone remember Ron Kirchner's "picky choosey" program?