Who would leave for a corp job..

[filejw]

Guys reading all of the above just remember airlines are in business to fly A/C corporations are not.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Guys reading all of the above just remember airlines are in business to fly A/C corporations are not.

I'm resurrecting this year-old thread to ask the poster above -- it that a BAD thing?

 

[BoilerUP]

Since FA bumped the thread...

I left AWAC five months ago after two years for a part 91 gig flying a Citation that's older than I am.

I immediately got a type rating and my ATP, and my compensation increased to equal or better than what I would have made if I had stayed and upgraded at Wisconsin. Most importantly, I gained immeasurable QOL from moving to the exact location my wife and I wanted to live in, with a nearly 40% reduction in cost of living from DC Metro. My monthly RONs were cut by at least 2/3, and when we do RON its a HGI or Courtyard at the minimum. All expenses on the road go on the company credit card without overzealous expense oversight.

Most trips are day turns and I'm home in time for dinner. I'm on first-name basis with everyone in the company, and the boss actually seems to give a damn about his employees and their personal well-being. I was with the company just 2 weeks and received both a Christmas bonus AND the company-wide "Christmas gift" of a flat-screen HDTV.

Could my job go away tomorrow? Sure it could, but so could the job of the #1 captain at any airline, given what has transpired the last two weeks. With my company's business model and need for extensive regional travel, I think the odds of my department closing, even with $115/bbl oil, are even less than AA or UAL going Tango Uniform.

I can't worry about the things I cannot control. I have a little control in our direct operating cost between flight planning and contract fuel, but that's it. I can't control what the boss does or doesn't do...just like an airline pilot can't control what a hedge fund or their upper management will do.

The 91/135 lifestyle isn't for everybody, nor is the 121 lifestyle for everybody. Having seen both first hand, I doubt I'll be returning to the airlines for a LONG time...but never say never.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I'd bail out of my CRJ Captain seat for a corporate gig if the new job met the following criteria:

1. Equal or better pay
2. Paid medical/dental for me and my family
3. Flight department must be an integral part of the business and not just a toy for the owner. I don't want the a/c getting sold if business takes a down turn.
4. Scheduled work days and scheduled hard days, in other words multiple crews.
5. The owner/operator pays all training costs/type ratings etc.
6. Some sort of reasonable 401K, bonus, and/or profit sharing plan.

I could care less what kind of a/c. Bonanza to Global Express. If it meets the above criteria I'd seriously consider making a move. Doing some international flying would be a nice change of pace. I wouldn't really care if I was gone a lot as long as I could count on my scheduled days off to be mine.

If the job you are considering meets these requirements and you decide to pass, feel free to PM me with the info.



Here goes...NETJETS....if you look at each item on your list you can say yes to every one at NJ..seriously

 

[taxi1wire]

How bout the plusses!!!!

My private FD has 4 total pilots, 3 of which are former Legacy pilots, none of us look back and the worst part of our job is DEADHEADING on the airlines......

Our stats:
DO 18 years US .........QUIT 2004
#2 17 years US..........QUIT 2004
#3(ME) 9 Years UAL.........QUIT 2004

But I digress,
The plusses of Corporate!!

1. Pick our own hotels! (Marriott or Hilton)
2. Rent a cars! no crew bus that is overcrowded..or does not even show up.....
3. AVTRIP Points!
4. Hotel Points!
5. Choice of FS or CAE training sites!
6. TREATED AS A CUSTOMER AT FBO'S!!
7. Varied flying...Austin Tx to Zanzibar Tanzania....
8. No ground stops, go directly ahead of the line of ground stopped airliners to launch!
8. Usually no conga lines at destination, we avoid the airline airports purposely..
9. Cleared direct because we are at FL430!....
10. Free Wine Napa!!
11. WE'RE IN NAPA!!!!(usually for days...."hick"....."burp"...)
12. Naples Fla in January!!!!
13. Nassau in January!!
14. Days off at destinations, not min time behind the door.
15. Slacks and Polo's!! NO LIDS allowed...no Ties..
16. Passenger appreciation..

Continue the list please...

I hope it lasts...but if it doesn't, this has beaten all the time I spent at UAL...


PV

 

[timmay]

You know for a Caveman you're a smart man. j/k But seriously that was a very good post. I've done the "corporate" side with a single owner and that job lasted no more than 2 years, and then did the "corporate" side of things with the "some 135" Yeah right, you mean all 135. I'll never understand why people by jets when they cant even afford them. If it's not the real corporate job Example, flying for Bank Of America, McDonnalds, Starbucks, Geico etc then stay put.

I totally disagree I fly a single owner all 135 pleasure flying and my life couldnt be better. Corporate is hit or miss and depends on the owner/corporation. However i think the best airline job doesnt even come close to the best corporate job. Oh and with all these terrible 135 trips Ive managed 14 hours and 9 days of work this YEAR.

 

[bailout]

There are far more bad corporate jobs than good ones, so keep that in mind. Fracs are another story. The top 3-4 are excellent.


And dont forget the 'Atlantic' points! I make an extra $100.00 a week on those!

 

[reepicheep]

"I think I'll quit my airline job and go corporate..."

Wish it were that easy. Without a rock-solid internal connection, an airline guy has a near-zero chance of ever breaking into that world.

The most valuable skill you will ever develop in your flying career - networking.

 

[BoilerUP]

The most valuable skill you will ever develop in your flying career - networking.

Indeed...

 

[No.W.]

I'd do it in a heart beat. Almost did...just couldn't make it work with the family(maybe after the wife is done with school).

 

[T-prop]

Guys reading all of the above just remember airlines are in business to fly A/C corporations are not.

...and that's why most corporations pay their pilots quite well. Most corporations don't live or die based on how expensive their flight departments are... It's a business tool that they are willing to spend top dollar on. A corporate flight department doesn't have to worry about making a profit (airline). It just has to justify time saved for it's road warriors conducting the business's primary mission.

Stay away from family owned aircraft and/or Dr. owned aircraft, and you'll generally do pretty well.

 

[Bluecruiser]

Would I leave the airlines for Part 91....Yes!

Copied this from another thread called, "How is the corporate world" over on the other forum:

Thought of a few more things that make me happy:

1. No more hats (yes, I wore mine like I was told)
2. No more ties
3. No more dragging my rollaboard around with a 50 lb flight-kit attached
4. No more dragging said rollaboard through ice/snow in the employee lot
5. No more employee lot busses lacking air-conditioning, heat, and shocks
6. No more waiting at employee lot bus-stops
7. No more entering security codes at every &%@$# door in the building
8. No more TSA telling me to take off my shoes
9. No more TSA inspecting my flashlight for the 40th time
10. No more TSA telling me to remove my hat
11. No more TSA leaning in to smell my breath
12. No more TSA
13. No more gate agents taking their good ol' time printing the release
14. No more waiting for gate agents to give you access to your airplane
15. No more waiting for jetway drivers
16. No more calling ops to ask for said jetway driver & being told, "shift change"
17. No more flight attendants calling up front because it's too hot, cold, bumpy
18. No more flight attendants sitting in first class instead of providing customer service
19. No more flight attendants whining about not getting crew meals
20. No more flight attendants whining when they DO get crew meals
21. No more APU's deferred with no ground air carts available
22. No more waiting for the hotel van
23. No more roadside fleabag hotels
24. No more :40 van rides to the long-overnight hotel so the F/As can shop
25. No more apologies for being away on weekends, holidays, special occasions
26. No more watching flying be outsourced to the lowest bidder
27. No more watching ALPA spend dues on "strongly worded letters"
28. No more ALPA (thats the best part!)
29. No more delapidated "crew rooms"
30. No more junior manning or extensions
31. No more pagers
32. No more calls from scheduling at 2am to transition you from regular reserve to short-call
33. No more quick-calls to go to Akron and back
34. No more racing through the terminal and grabbing a McValue Meal during a 15 minute break
35. No more equipment changes every time you fly through the hub
36. No more nastygrams from the company whenever you're in negotiations
37. No more feeling ashamed at the lack of customer service the company provides.
38. No more apologizing for weather, aircraft size, ATC delays, mechanical delays, etc.
39. No more groundschools in converted hangars or old elementary schools.
40. and finally... no more turning on CNN every night and wondering whether the airline is still in business.

(ahhh... I feel better now)
Did I miss anything? Feel free to add to this list.

WOW!!! I couldn't have made a better list myself! Especially #'s 37 & 38! Am I the only one that is tired of apologizing for my company day in and day out?

I worked both 135 and 91. Thinking that I was missing out on something, I left 91 two years ago and came to 121. Now I am at one of those "good" regional carriers, but the above list sounds like every day at work. At present, I am actively trying every possible route back into corporate aviation.

A previous poster said that airline guys who never worked a 9-5 are more likely to whine about their job....Well, I worked that world for a while too. Sure, the desk view is never quite like a view out the front of an aircraft. But you want to know something?....I was treated like a respected and valued employee. When I traveled for work, my employers didn't put me in crappy, dirty hotels with bugs in the sheets. I didn't work 14 hour days for 5 or 6 hours of pay. (Oh yeah....I was salaried so I didn't have that hanging over my head) Not once was I asked to work a schedule that was 12 hours long with no breaks or lunch. If I needed a day or weekend for something important with my family, I got it. It did not have to resort to this pathetic practice of calling in sick. AND FINALLY.....When I was done with my 9-5 work week, I did not have to sleep the whole next day off to fight the constant fatigue.

Its amazing how we forget about our old lives, how we rationalize giving up so much just for the 'privilege' of flying at an airline. When I started flying, my goal (like everyone else) was to be that American or Delta captain on a wide-body. No intentions to go down that road now.

I miss flying, and that's why I'm trying to leave the airlines and get back into aviation!

 

[say again]

Ive done both, and can honestly say that there are pro's and con's to both. More pro's on the 135 side versus the 121 regionals.

Pro's for the 135 side:
-better trips/destinations, and you actually get to spend more than 10 hrs (most of the time)
-directly involved in customer relations
-directly involved in all aspects of flight/fuel planning
-Hotel/airline points (always stay at great hotels, unless they're unavailable)
-No TSA
-Home much more (my company experience, others vary)
-90% 1-3 legs a day
-Pay is much better (again for my company-pay was more as an FO than regional CA's)
-No commuting, 10 minutes from base airport
-crew meals
-Better per diem rates

Con's
-on call, but not bad at all. usually know in advance of trips, but you do get the occasional pop-up trip
-75% of trips are early a$$ wake-ups (4 am -6am)
-all day airport appreciation sits
-schedule is harder to manipulate
-fly with only a handful of different pilots (i enjoy meeting and flying with new guys)
-those 91 legs after a long a$$ day, though if youre tired and fatigued company has no problem shutting down and overnighting us.

Overall, my QOL is much better on the 135 side and enjoy it quite a bit. Still get the itch every once in a while to go back to 121, but that only lasts a few minutes, but ya never know.
(BTW-my 121 experience was at ACA fly the dojo out of CVG, and loved it)

 

[Bluecruiser]

Yeah, you are right. Each situation is different, and there are truly Pro's & Con's associated with every type of operation. I suppose I've been a little toasted lately with the airline business. Being cranky while posting on FI is never a good idea....

 

[CubanSmoker]

There are far more bad corporate jobs than good ones, so keep that in mind.

So true. If you guys are looking to bail to a corporate outfit, slow down a bit and ask around. Everyone of us knows a few corporate guys, ask them to find out what they can about the operation before you fall for the "grass is greener" syndrome and dump your seniority.

There are FANTASTIC corporate gigs out there - a few of you guys have them. Congrats. I miss wearing polos and slacks when I fly very much. But I've been on both sides of the fence and I can say that the one thing I have never regretted was taking the time to ask the right questions from realistic people that actually are "in the know" on a company. They might be current or former pilots for the operation, line guys, or mechanics that work with the company a lot. Granted, a mechanic might not seem like a likely source of info, but they can tell you how the DO or CP feels about maintenance and if they pay their bills on time.

A company can rent a nice hanger and put a new paint job on a P.O.S jet and suddenly their shade tree flight department looks half decent. Those companies are usually gone within a few years and the ones that manage to make it longer are some of the worst places to work... Low pay, contracts, add the aircraft to a 135 cert to "help make more money" with an airplane that they really can't afford to own, etc.

If you can get a good corporate or fractional gig, great! Another poster said the key words: Networking is the greatest (non-flying) skill you can have in your aviation career. THAT is the key to getting the good jobs as the smart companies already have the pilot in mind for the job before they even posted the position. If you get that golden corporate gig, stay in touch with the buddies you make in training, contract pilots you fly with, and be nice to the line guys. You never know where your next job tip will come from. Heck, I was layed off over the phone while on a trip! If it wasn't for networking, I would have been in real trouble.


Just my $.02 and good luck making your choice.