Who would give up their CBA ?

[geardown]

There has been a lot of discussion about how bad ALPA, IBT, APA,ect. is. I am curious how many of you ( who have been a pilot in this industry for more than 10 years) would give up their CBA and union ( with all of it's warts), and go it alone, one on one with your airline management?

 

[fifty30retard]

There has been a lot of discussion about how bad ALPA, IBT, APA,ect. is. I am curious how many of you ( who have been a pilot in this industry for more than 10 years) would give up their CBA and union ( with all of it's warts), and go it alone, one on one with your airline management?

C'mon, who's that stupid?

 

[BUDDHA145]

C'mon, who's that stupid?

Hahaha!!! Nice one...

 

[StarChecker]

C'mon, who's that stupid?

I know 1193 who are that stupid.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Could it be a cage match? Because most of those guys look pretty soft. I think I could take any one of them and impose my will.

 

[BeachBummer]

I wou...... wait no I don't have that option... How do I get a CBA thingy? If I had one I might wanna get rid of it?

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

A CBA is only good enough when the company stays out of CH 7 and 11. Years, sometimes decades of negotiated wages, work rules and benefits (retirement plans too) go down the tubes when management hits the "easy" button. Therein lies the reality of your so-called CBAs--

There seems to be a cycle during our deregulated times of about every 10 or so years, the airline managers decide to reset all the CBAs via this route... Don't you think something is wrong with that???

 

[fifty30retard]

A CBA is only good enough when the company stays out of CH 7 and 11. Years, sometimes decades of negotiated wages, work rules and benefits (retirement plans too) go down the tubes when management hits the "easy" button. Therein lies the reality of your so-called CBAs--

There seems to be a cycle during our deregulated times of about every 10 or so years, the airline managers decide to reset all the CBAs via this route... Don't you think something is wrong with that???

Thanks for you input milspec. They changed the law though in the 1980's post Lorenzo (your CEO's NYA boss) to make labor groups secured creditors in a bankruptcy. It prevents abrogation of contracts with zero recourse for labor, that's you in case you were wondering. Now they (labor) negotiate and receive part of the post-bankruptcy entity when it emerges. Now, run back to Jenny for a half-truth or two, it's the way of the BOB, a group of insufferable idiots.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Thanks for you input milspec. They changed the law though in the 1980's post Lorenzo (your CEO's NYA boss) to make labor groups secured creditors in a bankruptcy. It prevents abrogation of contracts with zero recourse for labor, that's you in case you were wondering. Now they (labor) negotiate and receive part of the post-bankruptcy entity when it emerges. Now, run back to Jenny for a half-truth or two, it's the way of the BOB, a group of insufferable idiots.

So I guess the United, NWA, and Delta pilots did well when their companies went bankrupt. Thank goodness for the ability to make labor groups be secured creditors in bankruptcy. Because you know, it's so much better being furloughed or getting your pay cut in half, or lose your pension once "your" company emerges from CH 11!!! Thankfully, "negotiated" CBAs will protect you from everything including meteor showers-- please, when's the next union vote?

 

[Blue Dude]

Blue Bayou, no contract language can guarantee a job for life. Yes, airline managers can misbehave badly enough that no CBA can protect you. That doesn't negate the requirement for closely drawn, well thought contingency plans that will hold up in court or arbitration, absent overriding factors such as bankruptcy. We've got nothing except confusing, theoretical language that was drawn up by corporate attorneys whose priorities don't include the well being of the pilot group. Even if the language is good, it would take years to prove it, turning a fairly routine merger between two healthy companies, or an acquisition of a healthy company (ours) into an uncertain, very expensive battle. During which our careers are being defended by... who? With what money? How many factions will be fighting among each other, while the other pilot group rolls over us in court with their own well-defined procedure?

You can go through life without insurance or a will for instance, but taking minimal precautions and getting them means not leaving an unholy mess behind that has to be cleaned up. Our careers are the same way. If there's never a TE, I agree, we don't need a CBA. If there is one, we'll be fools not to have at least a minimal, tested procedure in place. All we have now is an experiment. I don't want to be a lab rat - I have a family to support. How about you?

 

[Lake Alice]

Blue bayou is dumb enough.

Even in bankruptcy all the carriers you mentioned still have better retirement, better health benefits, better M/A language and better futures. We have the 5 documents who's validity is based on an email that wasn't intended to go out.
What does that say, huh? Even bankrupt airlines CBA's hitting the "reset" button still yield more financial gains than ours. Amazing.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Blue bayou is dumb enough.

Even in bankruptcy all the carriers you mentioned still have better retirement, better health benefits, better M/A language and better futures. We have the 5 documents who's validity is based on an email that wasn't intended to go out.
What does that say, huh? Even bankrupt airlines CBA's hitting the "reset" button still yield more financial gains than ours. Amazing.

You're absolutely correct! It is total injustice in this industry to have a job for 11 years and not be furloughed!!! I just had an Evergreen FO jumpseat for the last time home because he just got his furlough notice. Evergreen joined ALPA in 2007-- and what have they done effectively since for Evergreen? According to the FO, collect dues... Amazing.

 

[Lake Alice]

And ALPA did nothing for Alaska, Delta, Northwest, United, Continental, FedEx and APA has done nothing for American. You site Evergreen? Evergreen...seriously? Evergreen is the cargo equivalent to a regional carrier. A third party contractor. Your ignorance is surpassed only by your gullibility. We've been underpaid for 11 years yet your just happy to be here.

 

[Blue Dude]

You're absolutely correct! It is total injustice in this industry to have a job for 11 years and not be furloughed!!! I just had an Evergreen FO jumpseat for the last time home because he just got his furlough notice. Evergreen joined ALPA in 2007-- and what have they done effectively since for Evergreen? According to the FO, collect dues... Amazing

You ignored my post, dude. A CBA doesn't guarantee a job. It does put in place contingency plans in the case of a TE.

Your example is a complete non-sequitur. Furlough from a seasonal freight carrier vs a healthy passenger airline? And what does JetBlue have in common with an ACMI carrier anyway? You're not making sense, and ignoring the larger issue of a TE.

 

[Lake Alice]

According to that very same FO he has merger protection, paid legal support, aeromedical...oh yeah, the ability to negotiate. He doesn't get 5 documents shoved down his throat.

 

[Lake Alice]

You ignored my post, dude. A CBA doesn't guarantee a job. It does put in place contingency plans in the case of a TE.

Your example is a complete non-sequitur. Furlough from a seasonal freight carrier vs a healthy passenger airline? And what does JetBlue have in common with an ACMI carrier anyway? You're not making sense, and ignoring the larger issue of a TE.

You should fly with this guy. These are the same arguments he uses. The problem with him and those he surrounds himself with is they don't know the facts and could care less about learning them. His final argument is always "if you don't like it then leave". How do you argue with such childishness. He'll sit there all day quoting Craine emails and we all know what Craine has done for this pilot group.

 

[fifty30retard]

So I guess the United, NWA, and Delta pilots did well when their companies went bankrupt. Thank goodness for the ability to make labor groups be secured creditors in bankruptcy. Because you know, it's so much better being furloughed or getting your pay cut in half, or lose your pension once "your" company emerges from CH 11!!! Thankfully, "negotiated" CBAs will protect you from everything including meteor showers-- please, when's the next union vote?

You're too stupid to vote, we'll just find someone to cancel your's out, like me.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

You're too stupid to vote, we'll just find someone to cancel your's out, like me.

You see, the way it works is everyone cancels everyone out until there aren't people from one side or the other to cancel the other out. You should remember that, given that you were on the cancelled out side last time.

You must have been a terrible loser as a kid.

 

[fifty30retard]

You see, the way it works is everyone cancels everyone out until there aren't people from one side or the other to cancel the other out. You should remember that, given that you were on the cancelled out side last time.

You must have been a terrible loser as a kid.

Funny. Celebrating mediocrity, are we? Please stay at ASA, you belong there.