Who won and is doing the Frontier flying in DEN?

[sweptback]

For SKywest, what about the non-compete clause for United out of Denver? It is my understanding SKywest will not likely get the frontier flying b/c of that. Station manager in DEN at Skywest said Republic is the likely winner with 170 or 175s.

SkyWest would be bidding for the flying under the ASA certificate. We're not restricted by the United clause.

I agree that E190s at ASA are a long shot, however I don't believe that RAH will be the only regional operator of the E170 family forever. The question is if 20 planes is enough to justify adding another fleet type for another airline.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I had LeBrequec on my Jumpseat two weeks ago and asked him about the Frontier flying. He said he didn't think we would get it because it was E-190 flying and they would probably choose someone who is already flying it

Well ,if LiarBrecque told you that it MUST be true. I'm surprised he didn't also throw in the obligatory "if only our pay rates were a little lower, we might get it".

 

[SPDBRD747400]

I'm not sure the argument about the CRJ versus EMB flying (meaning ASA wouldn't do it if it was E170/190 flying) isn't really all that valid anymore. Look at CHQ with CRJ's for CO when all they had were ERJ's....Yes Yes I know it's smaller and more are available but don't discount it just on airplanes do it on Bag handling, or is that miss-handling!!! Wasn't that our currents CEO responsibility pre his promotion?

 

[blackbox]

Skywest already has a whole network set up in Denver, Republic, I believe, do not. That's costly to initiate. I don't believe Frontier pays for that sort of thing (setting up bases, etc.) Not sure how Frontier compensates there. It's no secret the E170 is an expensive airplane to operate, however, passengers LOVE it. Maybe that's why Frontier wants it so badly. They are a low cost carrier, and you'd think they would want cheaper flying. Frontier will operate the 2 aircraft Horizon are sending back in January (replace with Airbus). As far as I know, Horizon will be out of Denver as of Dec. 2007.

Trojan

I doubt the "network set up" is going to stop other airlines from bidding. It may be costly, but what does Frontier care if they dont have to pay for the set (as you mentioned)? I would assume Frontier owned the gates, not horizon. Thats the biggest obstacle.

I dont know who is going to get the flying. But to think skywest/asa will get it just because they are already set up there is a bit silly, no?

 

[colorado14hi]

From the time this was first announced, the process of selection has definitely drug out. This could lead one to surmise that the bids have come in higher than Frontier expected, leading to continued negotiations to get them lowered. It is logical to think that ASA (skywest) would have an inside track with their support infastructure already in place. However, the reliability factor of the current ASA operations surely must be a major consideration in the selection process.

CHQ on the other hand has the public's more favored small jet. Many have commented on its' preference when flying routes longer than 1.5 hours. But will Republic be willing to accept a less than 10% return on their investment? This has to be an obstacle to the CHQ bid.

Frontier is scheduled to take delivery of five 318s between February and May which will help in cover some of the early loss of Horizon's departing planes. But beginning in September the pull down of Horizon craft begins in earnest and if Frontier expects to have their small jet switchover successful a selection needs to be made soon. Otherwise, it becomes a logistics challenge for the new regional operator and a mainline scheduling cauldron for Frontier.

 

[79%N1]

"However, the reliability factor of the current ASA operations surely must be a major consideration in the selection process."


When will you guys get it through your heads....ASA's operational performance stems from the difficulties of the worlds busiest airport in a crazy weather area, and from the lack of work ethic in the employee pool, coupled with the understaffing in such a busy operation. With a small operation in DEN, hiring from that hiring pool out of a lesser congested airport with the mailine partner NOT trying to shove 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag, ASA will perform as well as CHQ/REP, Horizon, Skywest or anybody else......just as they would have the same challenges ASA faces in ATL.

 

[homerjdispatch]

"However, the reliability factor of the current ASA operations surely must be a major consideration in the selection process."


When will you guys get it through your heads....ASA's operational performance stems from the difficulties of the worlds busiest airport in a crazy weather area, and from the lack of work ethic in the employee pool, coupled with the understaffing in such a busy operation. With a small operation in DEN, hiring from that hiring pool out of a lesser congested airport with the mailine partner NOT trying to shove 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag, ASA will perform as well as CHQ/REP, Horizon, Skywest or anybody else......just as they would have the same challenges ASA faces in ATL.

You know what they say about excuses....

 

[Crash Pad]

Let me juice this rumor a little more.

I heard that ASA management is no longer seeking dual qualification.

Suppose they knew we were going to be the EMB-170/190 carrier under the SKYW umbrella. Then it would make sense that they no longer want dual qualification or same pay rates.

79% I don't think Frontier gives a rats a$$ where the airline is based. Assuming they did care are we to believe that ORD is a slow airport without weather problems?

 

[TAWS]

One of the problems that F9 apparently had, was the difference in service between the Airbus and the CRJ - Horizon is a good product, but they aren't cheap and people didn't like getting off a bus and onto a CRJ.
F9 wants something that is going to feel more like a comparable standard in service. As for someone else operating the EMBs, sure - it's bound to happen, but Bedford has/had all the options tied up (I don't know if this is still the case) and only JetBlue has comparable operating experience - these are not like ERJs or CRJs, they are finicky aircraft and can tie your operation in knots if you don't know them well enough.

 

[Texx]

F9 wants something that is going to feel more like a comparable standard in service.

And you know everyting that Frontier wants and thinks? Yeah, right.

 

[Capt. Qdoba]

[ they are finicky aircraft and can tie your operation in knots if you don't know them well enough.[/quote]


...and the Q400s aren't?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Funny to read the reasons people have for one ACMI operator getting the nod over another alter ego brand doesn't matter operation. Would Republic operate an airplane with less than a 10% margin. Sure they would, they bought their way into other operations with a 4 to 4.5% margin to keep growth going (cheaper airplanes, less senior crews reduce costs for RAH). Besides, they alway hope to hit the bonus money. Could ASA operate a "finicky" airplane, HAH Ha - they operate a worn out Franco Italian relay monster that no one has a reliable electrical diagram for and were the launch customer for the E120. Dual qualification no longer an issue? Sure it isn't when you have more than 400 flights a day out of a single base and have large enough pilot groups to make it a non issue. Besides, we are talking a whole 'nother type and you don't think EMB would throw in training costs with a $29,000,000.00 airplane? Bombardier has in the past.

This is a stop gap for Frontier who is probably going to be a merger player in the future.

All we know is, we don't know.

 

[Smarta$$]

One of the problems that F9 apparently had, was the difference in service between the Airbus and the CRJ - Horizon is a good product, but they aren't cheap and people didn't like getting off a bus and onto a CRJ.
F9 wants something that is going to feel more like a comparable standard in service. As for someone else operating the EMBs, sure - it's bound to happen, but Bedford has/had all the options tied up (I don't know if this is still the case) and only JetBlue has comparable operating experience - these are not like ERJs or CRJs, they are finicky aircraft and can tie your operation in knots if you don't know them well enough.

Idiot.

 

[avrodriver]

SkyWest would be bidding for the flying under the ASA certificate. We're not restricted by the United clause.

I agree that E190s at ASA are a long shot, however I don't believe that RAH will be the only regional operator of the E170 family forever. The question is if 20 planes is enough to justify adding another fleet type for another airline.

Might be cost effective if they picked up even more than 20 and ran the rest for DAL...long shot, but would be sweet to see.

 

[Tomct]

CHQ on the other hand has the public's more favored small jet. Many have commented on its' preference when flying routes longer than 1.5 hours. But will Republic be willing to accept a less than 10% return on their investment? This has to be an obstacle to the CHQ bid.


You're KIDDING right? I mean, you have GOT to be KIDDING!! Otherwise, I have some Outstanding Swampland in the everglades to sell you for a GREAT price!! :laugh:

Favored small jet...hahahahahaha I shot Mtn. Dew out my nose!! Man, you need to lay off the crack pipe!

 

[IronManNDFW]

Just to throw another log on the fire.

Lynnx (Fronter Express) has already placed ads for Captains and F/O's on the Q400 (climbto350.com).

Horizon has already stated that they are brining back the CRJ's and reintergrating them in the Horizon system. It is my understanding that Horizon only had 4-7 CRJ's on the Fronter flying (Airline Pilot Central).

The Fronter pilots are stating that their should be only 1 seniority list (Flight Forums under Fronter flying).

Although the talk around DEN is that Fronter will need a smaller jet than the 318, and something larger than a Q400 (Flight Forums).

Anyones guess is as good as mine as to what will happen.

 

[terryhfly]

Jetblue is going to fly the 190's for us!!!

 

[boknowsASA]

ASA is doing it!!! LOL:beer:

 

[ERJDRVR]

I will lay $$$ that CHQ/RP/SA got this bid.

Anyone care to wager??

 

[boknowsASA]

nice try it's already posted that they won it! Crap this sucks!!!